Quote:Roy's shittiness is obvious; There's already two Marths, Roy was an inferior Marth to begin with, he's had only one major appearance in his series, that game was one of the worst in the series, he himself was one of the worst characters in the series, etc. Roy is there as a Smash Bros character more than a Fire Emblem character, and I don't understand where even his Smash Bros popularity comes from. This is why I hate the King Maker aspect of Smash Bros... if Smash wanted to pick nobodies but cycle them out when something more relevant comes around, that's fine (Roy->Ike, Young Link->Toon Link), but that doesn't happen. Instead, anybody who sets foot in Smash becomes something much bigger than themselves and refuses to ever fade into obscurity. It doesn't matter if they were terrible in the game either, as the Roy and Pichu polling in Japan shows us. I want cycling cast members in the Smash series; I think Sheik should've been replaced by Impa, the Fire Emblem cast should frequently cycle, and obvious the Pokemon too. But for whatever reason, a lot of people don't want anyone who sets foot in Smash Bros to ever leave.
Quote:And ANOTHER THING I HATE. The Smash fandom is so fucking reactionary. When something is rumored or leaked or just assumed, people then all of a sudden advocate for it. There wasn't ANYBODY asking for Ryu before this leak, and now he has fans and advocates! The same thing happens every fucking time. The Gematsu leak CREATED fan demand for Chorus Kids out of thin air. Fan demand for Palutena increased because everyone expected her out of Sakurai's Uprising involvement. WHY do people rally behind what is expected? It creates this weird feedback loop of people supporting a character for disingenuous reasons and then creating the demand that justifies a character's inclusion in the game.
He calls Roy a Smash bros. character, it's not like Marth, Ness, and Captain Falcon can't be considered that either...
I don't like any character to be removed, because a character more or less captures an era... It's fun to see these different design qualities, thirty years worth of them, come together.
Also, would have been rallying behind Ryu had Sakurai not made his statement about fighting game characters. Ryu is practically the king of crossovers.
Isn't the Other M Ridley that's used in the game technically Ridley Jr. already?
The whole argument is that a character's inclusion should be based on who that character is OUTSIDE of Smash Bros and not inside.
Outside of Smash Bros, Roy is a nobody. At least Captain Falcon had something going for him outside of Smash. He had a TV series and a couple of games under his belt.
And characters need to be removed because you have to make room. If the developers spent time making every veteran come back, that's less time spent for someone new.
I think that's definitely the case in regards to newcomers... but the Smash Bros. franchise is nearing twenty years old itself. With the history the franchise has going into it, and the way it's shaped the modern gamespace, and Nintendo as a company, it can't properly celebrate Nintendo without celebrating itself, at least a little bit. That means including characters that are nothings outside of the Smash titles. Nana, Popo, Roy, Ness, Captain Falcon (he had a thing once, but even that cartoon you mentioned fed off of his popularity and characterization from Smash Bros.)--all of these characters are kept in the modern eye only because of Super Smash Bros., and they aren't even the whole lot. Hell, Mr. Game & Watch isn't even a character outside of Smash, if you don't count his brief stint as a cohost for Game & Watch Gallery (I think it was 3. The one with the boxing minigame that featured Luigi), and even in that instanced he only appeared because he had previously been created for Melee. Without Brawl, we wouldn't have the modern Kid Icarus iteration.
There is honestly nothing wrong with liking a character for their involvement in Smash Bros.' history. You are advocating for the removal of content between installments of a game franchise which thrives on content, and that always ends up taking away from the experience of a sequel. Mario Kart isn't the same without its past tracks, characters, or mechanics... this is true of Street Fighter, and Tekken, and Samurai Warriors, and any other game with an emphasis on multiplayer and task repetition all the way down the line to Super Smash Bros. So Roy's run as a Lord wasn't well received; so Roy is more well-known as a combatant in Melee; so what? His presence in that one game helped bring the Fire Emblem franchise outside of Japan, the first game of which to do so, I might add, featured Roy's father. Not to mention that he has enough of a following to have been one of the earliest FE:A DLC reveals. That was a big draw to many people.
First of all you can't compare Tekken or Street Fighter since they aren't pulling characters or IP from outside their own game (well they do sometimes).
Secondly you mentioning Kid Icarus' revival proves the terrible power of Smash Bros. This game has the power to shape the fates of a series or character. This is why many people on the DKVine want K. Rool in Smash since it might bring him back into the DK series. That's right. Its not because they think he'd be fun to play as, its about saving their beloved reptile from extinction.
Its not really fair that appearing in one game can outweigh everything they've done outside of it.
Let me put it this way. Imagine a guy named Joe who works really hard everyday at his job hoping one day he'll get a promotion. Now image Jeff. He's a lazy employee who has only been to work for three days now and nobody likes him. Well the boss is throwing a party at work and somehow Jeff was invited. Who knows why, but he was and Joe wasn't. Because Jeff was at that party and got to meet all the bosses and higher ups, he's been promoted to a position that Joe has been working years for. Is that fair? Not really. Sure Jeff was a lot of fun at that party but is that more important than years of hard work?
(04-18-2015, 04:39 AM)Koopaul Wrote: [ -> ]First of all you can't compare Tekken or Street Fighter since they aren't pulling characters or IP from outside their own game (well they do sometimes).
I think you missed the point of that comparison. The point was that taking a fighter out of those games would be problematic, even if the fighter doesn't seem to serve a purpose. A good number of people are up in arms about Ken supposedly not making it to SFV. The fighting genre relies on familiarity from one game to the next, and that extends into Smash.
But if it matters to you that much that we only compare mascot games to mascot games, Sega All-Stars Transformed is naked without Big the Cat and the Chu-Chus. Marvel vs Capcom 3 disappointed fans because it couldn't ever have hoped to live up to the roster of its predecessors.
(04-18-2015, 04:39 AM)Koopaul Wrote: [ -> ]Its not really fair that appearing in one game can outweigh everything they've done outside of it.
Let me put it this way. Imagine a guy named Joe who works really hard everyday at his job hoping one day he'll get a promotion. Now image Jeff. He's a lazy employee who has only been to work for three days now and nobody likes him. Well the boss is throwing a party at work and somehow Jeff was invited. Who knows why, but he was and Joe wasn't. Because Jeff was at that party and got to meet all the bosses and higher ups, he's been promoted to a position that Joe has been working years for. Is that fair? Not really. Sure Jeff was a lot of fun at that party but is that more important than years of hard work?
It's not really fair that Roy was created into a franchise which traditionally ditches its protagonists in favor of a completely new cast between iterations. He never stood to make as much of a name for himself because he was given fewer opportunities.
Honestly, you've got your Jeffs and Joes mixed up (particularly if you want this to be about Roy/FE and DK). Roy was given only one opportunity to make an impression on the world, Donkey Kong has been given thirty and continues to ride on the coattails of his more successful best buddy.
Kriven pretty much explained why a lot of people know Roy and that's a big point. Fire Emblem consists of many games with different protagonists, like Final Fantasy and stuff. It's a source of many characters. We have NES Marth, GC Ike and 3DS Robin (Lucina doesn't count, because intended to be a costume). Why not add GBA Roy? Sure there's Eliwood, but again, more people know Roy, FE or not.
An ideal roster contains all characters from the previous games and more. Melee pulled it off. The potential is still there, maybe sans Snake, Squirtle and Ivysaur, because of DLC. We already have Mewtwo, we're getting Lucas and Roy is pretty much a given at this point. And to prove this doesn't halt the flow of new characters coming in, Ryu is most likely coming too. That's assuming the rumor is true.
How can you say this doesn't halt the flow of new characters? Sakurai constantly complains about how much it pains him to make fighters for this game. I have good reason to believe the ballot will only offer us one character and then Sakurai is done. And it'll most likely be Wolf.
I mean do you think I'd be bitching about Roy if I knew DK was going to get three new characters? I know that time being spent on one character means less or no time being spent on another.
(04-18-2015, 05:21 AM)Koopaul Wrote: [ -> ]I mean do you think I'd be bitching about Roy if I knew DK was going to get three new characters?
Yes, you would. You vocally love DK and hate Fire Emblem.
K. Rool has been doing well in the character poll, so put your hopes into that.
But I don't hate Fire Emblem. I hate that Fire Emblem is getting tons of preferential treatment. I was the same way with Kid Icarus. And Mario too!
You think I hate Mario? If there was yet another Mario character added, I would bitch. Does that mean I hate Mario? Hell no! I love Mario, and you know it.
This isn't about what I love or hate. This is about being fair. In fact if Donkey Kong had 5 characters I'd be like "WTF?! That's way too many. Give some to Metroid now."
Yeah, you pretty much admitted you hate Fire Emblem contextually to Smash, so... I think my point still stands.
Also, would you have been satisfied instead of Robin and Lucina you got Dixie and a clone Funky Kong? Probably not. You'd probably say "ohhhh, why do dark pit when yuh coulda done k. Rool"
You mean if Fire Emblem didn't get any newcomers? That wouldn't be right. Fire Emblem definitely needed a newcomer.
Why are you assuming things about me? How do you know how I would react?
We all want to see our favorites in Smash Bros. I want Pico, Black Shadow or Deathborn from F-Zero, or a Metroid character that isn't Samus (maybe one of the Metroid forms?), and Wolf was my favorite Starfox character to play as, but I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth here. We got Mega Man for crying out loud and when we thought that was it for the third party characters, Pac Man shows up. Besides them, the most important characters are still there, sans Ice Climbers maybe. But we've got more than enough newcomers to make up for that, like Duck Hunt! Let's just welcome everyone that joins the roster from now on, even if they aren't the ones we are hoping for.
(04-18-2015, 07:53 AM)TomGuycott Wrote: [ -> ]Also, would you have been satisfied instead of Robin and Lucina you got a clone Funky Kong? Probably not. You'd probably say "ohhhh, why do dark pit when yuh coulda done k. Rool"
Actually, I don't think anyone would complain about this