The VG Resource

This theme just screams "HUH smell ya later loser"

(07-23-2011, 08:10 PM)Gorsal Sr. Wrote: [ -> ]Contra Hard Corps

has an amazing soundtrack

like all the konami genesis games

specially considering this one was actually develop by treasure.

or the team who would later turn into-

(07-24-2011, 09:25 PM)CO2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-23-2011, 08:10 PM)Gorsal Sr. Wrote: [ -> ]Contra Hard Corps

has an amazing soundtrack

like all the konami genesis games

specially considering this one was actually develop by treasure.

or the team who would later turn into-

By that time they already got out of Konami and made their own company

Treasure was made in 1992. I think they made the first two Contras or so before getting out of Konami.

Konami's music on the Genesis was good as usual, but I find it very strange of them not using samples or any other shenanigans they implemented on the MSX or NES (expansion chips, sample abuse).

This song is good but I wonder how would this sound with actual sampled drums instead of FM synth generated ones (don't forget that sampled percussion frees space on the FM synth channels, thus allowing more instruments and SE)

Compare this (Konami's Rocket Knight Adventures)


to Treasure's Dynamite Headdy (notice the sampled drum patterns)


Both are good, don't get me wrong, but I really don't undertand why the choice. Maybe size constraints? Team's inexperience? This also happens in the GBA Castlevanias: Harmony of Dissonance opted for a chiptuney sound while Circle of The Moon (released earlier) had samples for music.

Circle of the Moon-Awake


Harmony of Dissonance-Chapel of Dissonance


Again, both are good but this time I really think the latter one really hurts the music's sound. This is almost completely written on Gameboy Advance's old sound hardware instead of the new hardware (GBA had two sound hardwares: the original (carried away from the old Gameboys for retrocompatibility) and the new, Direct Sounds that allow two channels of sampling). It's possible for a GBA game to use both sounds at once, but in this case, Konami wrote all the important stuff on the old hardware while backing up secondary stuff on the new hardware.

I don't know why they did this; maybe it's again the size constraints (using old hardware's sounds is easier and smaller than having to sample different .wav files and allocating them into the cartridge) or something else.

did any game used both sound systems?

harmony's music is much better off using the instrumentation it used: the melodies generally dont work as well when treated with the mindset that they're supposed to be emulative of existing instruments, rather than simply existing as they are, in their own space to be used as they were supposed to be used. the oft-given reason for using the chip they used was that they didn't have the room because of all the visual stuff they were doing in that game, but just looking at that reason and calling it a "mistake" or a "tragedy" is hardly fair when approaching the quality of the music and how obviously intentional it was.

the sound chip couldn't possibly have hurt the songs sound, because that is the songs sound.


i listen to harmony of dissonances music far more often than i bother with cotm or aria's for the simple fact that the songs feel like they're at their full strength, whereas every single time i hear something from aria i cant help but lament the incredibly weak, emulative instrumentation.

That's a matter of taste, tbh.

Also, I'm not hating any soundtrack because I do like both. I just don't know why someone would 'hey, we made music with better 'technology' before, let's now jump to chiptunes instead'. All the 'visual' theory doesn't explain it very well because CoTM had good graphics too imo.

Don't forget that I live and breath chiptunes too, so I know when it sounds okay and when it could be better. Also, consider that HoD is a Metroidvania game and you need to traverse several places quite frequently, so, in this case, quality sampling is all in music.

I for one, would like to see some HoD tracks remade with samples, just to see how it turns out.

Also Met, almost all games used both channels for music/SE. Often they're used for cursor sounds, along with the sampled main instrument. Check Mother 3's soundtrack and you'll hear a faint square wave in some soundtracks, mimicking the main instrument's echo.

Quote:Don't forget that I live and breath chiptunes too, so I know when it sounds okay and when it could be better.

dee hee im an expert in chiptunes so i know better 0:

Thats called an appeal to authority - appeals to authority go absolutely nowhere and are known as logical fallacies for a reason; similarly, if you really want to apply that argument to yourself, then i could easily apply it to me, as well, in that i live and breathe harmony of dissonance.

I have made arguments for the music: you have simply said "it doesnt sound good, and i know better because i like chiptunes".

Quote:All the 'visual' theory doesn't explain it very well because CoTM had good graphics too imo.

Ignoring the fact that the "theory" takes precedence due to the fact that it was stated by the team that designed the game, i suggest you re-examine the statement. the sprites in harmony of dissonance are larger, they have more frames of animation, more colors, they are more complicated, there are more of them; there are complicated visual effects everywhere like after images, spells, animated backgrounds including a slew of psuedo-3D/mode 7-esque effects, like for the clouds in the chapel of dissonance/sky hallway and the rotating clocktower that can be seen in the keep area of the castle. there are enemies comprised of rotating body parts, like in SOTN (ex: http://spriters-resource.com/gameboy_adv...hammer.png ) and the environments are far more layered with details. circle of the moon thrived on repeating the exact same pillars motif throughout the majority of its castle, whereas harmony delights in thrusting a multitude of unique tilesets. the sheer weight of the visual data surpasses cotm by a great deal.

And, like I said above, Koji Igarashi stated that the music had been sacrificed for the graphics.

Quote: Also, consider that HoD is a Metroidvania game and you need to traverse several places quite frequently,

Yes, I understand this; i've played through HoD to completion multiple times. it is also because of this fact that i understand that the music in harmony of dissonance compliments the game perfectly as-is on a thematic level: harmony of dissonance is complicated, it is fast, it is bizarre, it is gaudy, it is confusing; the music in the game reflects and compliments that bizarre and complicated and difficult-to-approach tone that permeates the whole of the game.

Quote:in this case, quality sampling is all in music.

Well, um
Where else would it be?

Quote:I for one, would like to see some HoD tracks remade with samples, just to see how it turns out.

Offense and defense: Marble Corridor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zsV113df...re=related

Chapel of dissonance: Chapel of Dissonance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouwGpIW9T...re=related

Successor of fate: Entrance Hall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-A1NWI5Y...re=related


They are not bad; the songs technically work, but they lack the strength and the weight the soundtrack held. the entire tone of the work is changed by changing these instruments, and i certainly would not wish to hear anything similar to these in-game.

Similarly, you could listen to the song that Soshiro Hokkai (the composer of harmony of dissonance) produced for aria of sorrow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXheZROJ1xA

A shame aria had to have such fuzzy and weak instrumentation.

2 street fighter songs and 2 non-street fighter songs

(07-25-2011, 05:10 PM)Gnostic WetFart Wrote: [ -> ]text

Quote:That's a matter of taste, tbh.

Anyway I apologise for the broken argument used. I'm okay with your point of view; I didn't know Koji said that, so I finally understand the reason for all this.

The pixel art itself is great on both games, but yeah, there are definitely more effects going on on HoD.

Still, it's clear that we don't hate Castlevania's soundtrack, and that's always a plus c:

PS: thanks for the sampled soundtrack, I really like them

0:00 - 0:07.

having a gb micro gives me the excuse for asking for this game for my birthday. :B

Official remixes count, yes?