12-08-2010, 10:32 PM
About time you got here, Tyvon. Your opinion on the matter would have really helped the argument move and not become an internet stalemate.
How would you incorporate SFA3 V-ISM into a game like this, Tyvon? :V
[Too many people, including Runouw, want to include it though, but it can't just be thrown in as-is, it needs to be retooled...
but it somehow became an argument?]
now if you don't mind, i'm seeking some closure here, thanks
As-is, there's a few flaws to it: Setting it to a definite time limit means that beginner players get screwed, combo masters own.
However, once we implement the alternate-final-combo we'll all be beginners at it since the combo system itself completely turns the game mechanics on its head for ten seconds, literally chucking an extra level of depth within what most players consider an already complex metagame.
You're putting a metagame within the metagame. A meta-metagame. And by setting a time limit, that's pretty much forcing a sink-or-swim.
Most people are going to become frustrated with trying to learn the mechanics of it to apply to their favorite character while a select few are going to obsess over it and live out your dream of people becoming pro at it.
That shouldn't happen.
It has to be adapted into a brawler-friendly format first before you just toss it in there. :/
If you thought about it (or if I made myself clearer), the OWN ZONE covers a very large area upon activation, and be serious - it's not like you're going to combo someone across the entirety of [Melee] Hyrule Castle. But - OWN ZONE right, as I was saying - if you think about it, the OWN ZONE is actually a V-ISM/P-Groove gauge in disguise that also correlates with the skill of the player who initiates it. MEANING: Beginner players would have a little more leeway with combo time while expert comboers can squeeze out a flashy combo within a reasonable limit - because going anything beyond what's needed is....well, unnecessary.
That way, you're not scaring the player away when they initiate their first Final Combo Smash. You're pretty much allowing them either to be satisfied with their results or upon learning how the OWN ZONE works, get interested in making the most out of it. It's like, a really really fast version of training wheels that catches on quickly!
As for fleshing it out a bit, perhaps the OWN ZONE upon initiated can start where the player is initially standing, so the player can determine where they'd like the combo to start. Then, once the combo gets rolling the OWN ZONE begins to shrink. Get the idea?
By the time the OWN ZONE passes you the opponent won't be knocked back at the end, you'll be doing the last move of the combo anyway, and you'll KO the opponent, completing your original intention in the first place.
The idea of making it a separate item is to prevent confusion in both execution and purpose of the Smash Ball. Plus, if people don't want to use the Final Combo Smash, they can turn it off 1) without turning off items, and 2) not worry about accidentally initiating the combo when they want to do a Final Smash. You might not do it yourself - but trust me, weird things happen like that. :I
Also you suggested startup animations or something
I totally mentioned that in the spoiler tag of my last post... >>
How would you incorporate SFA3 V-ISM into a game like this, Tyvon? :V
[Too many people, including Runouw, want to include it though, but it can't just be thrown in as-is, it needs to be retooled...
![[+]](images/collapse_collapsed.png "[+]")
Spoilerbut it somehow became an argument?]
now if you don't mind, i'm seeking some closure here, thanks
(12-08-2010, 06:58 PM)Negative-Zer0 Wrote: Tuna, MY idea was to incorporate this from a fighter into smash, while making it it's own thing. Not morphing it straight up into a fighter. Do you know how much complaining there would be in this forum if the gauge was Incorporated?We get it - actually, I know exactly what you mean. But "incorporating" doesn't always mean lifting one idea and dropping it into another untouched. Sometimes "conversion" is needed: You have to adapt that part you want to incorporate into the whole in order to make it work.
As-is, there's a few flaws to it: Setting it to a definite time limit means that beginner players get screwed, combo masters own.
However, once we implement the alternate-final-combo we'll all be beginners at it since the combo system itself completely turns the game mechanics on its head for ten seconds, literally chucking an extra level of depth within what most players consider an already complex metagame.
You're putting a metagame within the metagame. A meta-metagame. And by setting a time limit, that's pretty much forcing a sink-or-swim.
Most people are going to become frustrated with trying to learn the mechanics of it to apply to their favorite character while a select few are going to obsess over it and live out your dream of people becoming pro at it.
That shouldn't happen.
It has to be adapted into a brawler-friendly format first before you just toss it in there. :/
(12-08-2010, 06:58 PM)Negative-Zer0 Wrote: EDIT2: Koseh's idea in the own zone was to combo within a restricted area, which is a limit. The only limits that I personally think works best is the time limit.
If you thought about it (or if I made myself clearer), the OWN ZONE covers a very large area upon activation, and be serious - it's not like you're going to combo someone across the entirety of [Melee] Hyrule Castle. But - OWN ZONE right, as I was saying - if you think about it, the OWN ZONE is actually a V-ISM/P-Groove gauge in disguise that also correlates with the skill of the player who initiates it. MEANING: Beginner players would have a little more leeway with combo time while expert comboers can squeeze out a flashy combo within a reasonable limit - because going anything beyond what's needed is....well, unnecessary.
That way, you're not scaring the player away when they initiate their first Final Combo Smash. You're pretty much allowing them either to be satisfied with their results or upon learning how the OWN ZONE works, get interested in making the most out of it. It's like, a really really fast version of training wheels that catches on quickly!
As for fleshing it out a bit, perhaps the OWN ZONE upon initiated can start where the player is initially standing, so the player can determine where they'd like the combo to start. Then, once the combo gets rolling the OWN ZONE begins to shrink. Get the idea?
By the time the OWN ZONE passes you the opponent won't be knocked back at the end, you'll be doing the last move of the combo anyway, and you'll KO the opponent, completing your original intention in the first place.
The idea of making it a separate item is to prevent confusion in both execution and purpose of the Smash Ball. Plus, if people don't want to use the Final Combo Smash, they can turn it off 1) without turning off items, and 2) not worry about accidentally initiating the combo when they want to do a Final Smash. You might not do it yourself - but trust me, weird things happen like that. :I
Also you suggested startup animations or something
I totally mentioned that in the spoiler tag of my last post... >>
![[Image: 57d2BGH.png]](/image.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F57d2BGH.png&hash=2d19973d0f5a28daad56afc9e17a6b6d)