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TheShyGuy · (This post was last modified: 05-04-2015, 11:25 PM by TheShyGuy.)

The test animation looked very nice!

If you're still looking for some criticism, the issues with the triple jump had to due with incorrect physics.

First, you should know that objects tend to rotate around their center of mass when in the air. Due Mario's flip pose, it's visually closer to the head region than the body (perhaps around the neck area, offset a bit towards the center of the pose?). That's explains the odd looking flip rotation.

The second thing to note is that the center of mass (com) is what follows the parabolic motion. Since you got the com wrong, it looks like Mario's defying physics (not in a good way) because it's moving all over the place instead of following that nice parabolic motion.

Third, Mario isn't reacting to gravity correctly. Realistically, if it took you 5 seconds to jump to peak height, it'll take you 5 seconds to drop back down. Also, the speed at which you rise is mirrored in the speed at which you fall. In the test, the 1st and 2nd jump fall look off because the fall speed is noticeably much greater than their rise speed. The third shows the reverse, where the fall speed is relatively very slow, even though he jumped the highest there.

Of course, you can exaggerate physics, but you need to be consistent.

---

Just because: When you're rotating, if you "tuck" your rotation speed increases (think of a spinning ice skating dancer). When you untuck, your rotation speed decreases. You can use this idea to increases Mario's flip rotation speed at peeks, where he tucks, and decrease rotation speed before landing, where he untucks. Currently, Mario untucks after landing on the pipe. Sure, You don't "have" to untuck, but he doesn't really respond appropriately at the moment. Of course it's a test animation, so this is just for your consideration.

---

Although I wrote a bit, I still think the animation looks great. I'm looking forward to seeing more!

E-Man · 05-06-2015, 12:59 PM

There we go! That makes a lot of sense!

Regarding gravity, I was mostly trying to make the timing uneven since one of my Full Sail professors, Sean Springer, told me that certain parts of the body should go down faster. As a result, I made the graph editor have Mario land down as quickly as possible.

As for the rotation, I guess that serves me right for making all of Mario's principle movements (including his rotations) based on a NURBS circle at the base of his feet. I wasn't thinking it would cause a problem like that. now that I know, I'll see about shifting it way up once I make adjustments to the Mario puppet.

Moving on from that, though, I want to get around to not only writing the script of the short, but also display concept art and other world building concepts. I know this is basically unnecessary since you guys played the games before, but there's actually quite a handful of differences that makes my interpretation of the Mushroom Kingdom and beyond significantly different. Overall, I want to show my ideas to see if they're any good and possibly polish them based on your suggestions.

Anyway, the basic idea is that my stories take place roughly five or six years after the events of the first Paper Mario game, one or two years after the Thousand Year Door, and about six months or so after Super Paper Mario. As for Sticker Star, I'm on the fence of either removing it completely or (as I originally intended) implementing it as some kind of prequel to all the other Paper Mario games. If I go with the latter option, it might actually work with some story ideas I have in mind (such as explaining why Kammy Koopa serves as Bowser's righthand woman). Admittedly, I don't need to talk about these story ideas in full detail for a simple short starring the Koopa Bros., but I'd like to talk about them as I go along since they will play a major role throughout my Paper Mario series and other related fanworks.

Now, I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself, so maybe I should just show you part of the script I am writing for the first short.

Any thoughts or suggestions on what I have so far?

E-Man · (02-27-2014, 07:31 PM)

New part of the script, folks!

E-Man · 05-10-2015, 08:41 PM

Here is the final part of my script. I'm sorry for putting these all in spoilers. I just didn't want to overwhelm the posts with a very long script.

Do you like it, guys? What suggestions would you have in mind? Did I go a little too far with any of this?

E-Man · 05-12-2015, 04:18 PM

I take it that the script is fine, so it's about time I move onto something a bit more visual. Besides tackling concept art, I'm going to make some developments on not only adjusting the Mario puppet, but also creating some completely new puppets. I know it makes the most sense to take on the Koopa Bros. first, but I wanted to start on the man in green as a request form someone I know on Deviant Art.

[Image: Luigi%20and%20Repairs_zpsltorcxan.png~original]

[Image: Luigi%20and%20Repairs_zpsltorcxan.png~original]

Since Luigi shares not only similar poses, but also practically identical parts to Mario, I do not need to spend as much time on Luigi as I did with Mario. What do you think of the first sketch of him? I think it looks okay, but I can't shake the feeling that the feet are too big. On top of that, the body looks like it's sagging too much, so I might try adjusting that.

As for the Mario corrections, I only tweaked the ear so far. I not only attempted to rotate it into a better position, but also made it bigger. Do you like the sketch for that so far? Also, I'm playing around with the idea of giving Mario (and Luigi by extension) arm folding poses, much like Bowser's. The one on the right is my first attempt, while that other two are better attempts that show the hands at different angles.

What would you guys suggest?

Virt · 05-12-2015, 08:51 PM

It bothers me to no end that you used that incorrectly-assembled Luigi as a reference.
[Image: zaPfO8p.png]

This is from Super Paper Mario, but assembled correctly nonetheless.

In your final sketch, he looks to be facing too far towards the camera.

E-Man · 05-13-2015, 02:13 PM

There we go! I was hoping to see a better reference than that one in the sprite sheet! While I appreciate Stooben for ripping the sprites to use as a reference, the way he assemble some of the characters is bizarre. I mostly used a modified version of that sprite to compare size differences between Mario and Luigi and looked at Luigi's official artwork for additional references (I'm able to do this on a second screen).

In spite of all that, though, I made the proper corrections than I hope make it so that I can move onto more parts.

[Image: Luigi%20Fix_zpsns1s5ya4.png~original]

[Image: Luigi%20Fix_zpsns1s5ya4.png~original]

Also, I started on this beauty! I know it's not a Koopa Bro., but I needed to create the base Koopa before taking on any Koopa characters. As a result, I can also work on the Koopa Bro. at the same time as I work on the normal Koopa. With that said, do you see anything I need to change?

[Image: Koopa%20start_zpsunls98dp.png~original]

[Image: Koopa%20start_zpsunls98dp.png~original]

E-Man · 05-17-2015, 12:58 PM

I haven't told you guys about this, but I had a Skype session with Virt to refine a few of the sketches I posted before. I didn't want to post any progress until I did a bit more than that.

[Image: Luigi%20and%20Repairs_zpsvrlez282.png~original]

[Image: Luigi%20and%20Repairs_zpsvrlez282.png~original]

I didn't want to do anything else with Luigi until I sketched some more parts for Mario. I think I could get away with mirroring a few of them from one set of poses, but I made a few new hand poses just in case. On top of that, I not only finished the new ear sketches, but also made new mouth sketches. Of course, I'll only keep one of them the same because I am able to rotate it for additional animation (i.e. the way Doopliss as Mario talks). Got any suggestions?

Also, here's my refined Koopa.

[Image: Koopa%20update_zpspsqjhrwo.png~original]

[Image: Koopa%20update_zpspsqjhrwo.png~original]

I sketched a rough idea for the Koopa Bros.' collar that will allow me to get away with flipping it. I hope you don't mind that the yellow bit is a stripe instead of a button since it looks more appealing to me.

By the way, the New Paper Mario retexture project by Nelde gave me some inspiration on how I should tackle the Koopa Bros.

https://youtu.be/yF0nWbVzoqI

E-Man · (02-27-2014, 07:31 PM)

No new parts this time, but I thought that it would be best if I were to show you the map of the Mushroom Kingdom. I gotta warn you that it is not only a big image, but also it is very rough.

I thought creating this map would be a simple task, but it turned out that it really burned me out and piecing together multiple places in a logical made me use a lot of brain power. As a result, not a whole lot of locations have as much thought and detail put into them (i.e. Isle Delfino). While I did an okay job with showing were most of the locations are geographically, I'm very displeased by the overall scale. A big problem relating to that is how I made Princess Peach's Castle and Toad Town bigger than they needed to be. There are a lot of places that are a whole lot bigger than those two locations are (take Dinosaur Land for example, which fits in the space of town and the castle grounds), so it causes a lot of locations to appear in some pretty odd spots and be severally downscaled as a result. It got even worse when I tried to make more locations larger to counter that oversight. I guess it serves me right for using the Mushroom Kingdom map from Paper Mario as a base, which shows Toad Town to be much larger than any other location in the game.

In spite of that, I think I did a good job linking together the Shiver Mountain Range and Forever Forest with Fahr Outpost's area and the Twilight Town area respectively. Heck, the main reason why I even wanted to make this map in the first place was to show how the overworlds from the first two Paper Mario games linked together in my fanon. Of course, since I knew that the Mushroom Kingdom had more than those two places and there's actually some places that I do want the characters to visit that haven't appeared in other Paper Mario games (World 1-1 is a recent example), I just had to squeeze as many of those locations in there; however, I wasn't exactly able to include all the locations seen in Mario games. There are good reasons why I did not include places like Flipside and the worlds from Super Mario 64 (in the case of the latter, I think that they are more like pocket dimensions created by Bowser and the Star Power). As for other locations, those have various different reasons why they are excluded from the map.

In the case of the Mario Kart race courses, trying to include them would mean that they would not only dramatically change the face of the kingdom, but also I fear some of the racecourses might overlap with each other. A big example are all the racecourses that have Princess Peach's Castle incorporated into the track (including that one course where you actually drive into the castle in Mario Kart 7). It makes it even worse that each racetrack shows a different layout for the castle grounds, which makes my job for creating a reasonable map a lot harder. True, the layout of the Mushroom Kingdom changes dramatically for each game (the whole Mushroom Kingdom in Partners in Time is mostly unrecognizable compared to its direct sequel counterpart), but I do want to keep some level of consistency with my version. Besides, even though this map is mostly based on the Paper Mario one, I ditched how Peach's Castle and grounds look in that game in favor of how they look in Super Mario 64. As a result, I'm not above with making a few creative differences when I need to. By the way, before you ask, I'm not up for making multiple versions of Peach's Castle throughout the kingdom. I can understand why Bowser would have multiple version of his own castle, but does the Princess need to have more than one castle (especially with the questionable state of the Mushroom Kingdom's economy)? Sure, the idea of having multiple castles as decoys could work, but still…

Now, in regards to why I didn't include almost any specific Mario levels for the platforming game, it's just that I did not know how to include those properly without causing a lot of clutter. I know those locations are the heart and soul of the Mario franchise, but if you really look at them, they are (for the most part) nothing more than a collection of platforms and the like scattered around. There is no reason why I needed to include them in full depth, so I mostly omitted them. On top of that, the other reason why I didn't include them relates to a similar idea I had about why the Mario Kart tracks are not on the map. I think Bowser was the one who arranged the layouts of those levels in the first place, so they were more or less temporary deals that may as well fall into decay or demolished to make room for new levels. The same an be said about the various Mario Kart tracks. Someone probably built them for that moment in time and then dismantled some of them when they are no longer needed. It would probably explain why there are multiple racetracks that have Peach's Castle as a landmark. Of course, with all that said, I did at least include the first four or so levels from the original Super Mario Bros. Considering the iconic status of World 1-1, it would make sense to keep it around as a historical landmark.

There's a similar reason to why I didn't include specific worlds on the map (specifically anything from the New Super Mario Bros. games and Super Mario Bros. 3). They are just hard to include without cluttering the whole map up. I understand how important those games are to the Mario canon, but hear me out on this idea. What if I make some of the currently existing locations fall within the boundaries of those levels (i.e. make some of the Super Mario RPG overworld part of Pipe Land)? I know it's not the most optimal approach, but it's either that or I somehow squeeze them in as their own locations (or probably make them islands or something). On top of that, with the exception of New Super Mario Bros. U (trying to make that overworld fit logically will be a nightmare), non of worlds in the New Super Mario Bros. games have specific names. That means that, for example, the desert overworld in the first game or two could either be in Gritzy Desert or Dry Dry Desert. Also, if you're worried about the kings from Super Mario Bros. 3, don't be. My plan is to replace several of them with other government officials who may or may not be kings to begin with. People like King Nimbus and Booster to rule Sky Land and Pipe Land respectively come to mind. Of course, I'll see it as a great achievement if I successfully incorporate the King of Water Land into my stories. If you recall his appearance, you'll understand why. Nerd

As for Sarasaland, including it would mean that I have to include Princess Daisy. It's not that I have much of a problem with her. It's just that her character does not have any specific history compared to Peach's character. Even though she has a better, more active personality, she is basically Luigi's answer to Peach and I don't find that extremely interesting. Even though I'm willing to put her in there, I just won't do it without a major overhaul of her character and history. She'll still be as active as she is now, but the ideas I have in mind would be a huge departure of her own character that might make some people uncomfortable. It won't be anything that perverted, but let's just say that I'll be taking a little inspiration from a piece of Mario media some people wish it didn't exist. I know it's silly to include Mario Land and not Sarasaland, but the reason why I'm including the former is that it contains a moment in my Mario fanon that deeply develops Mario's character and shapes him into the hero he is today. It just didn't feel right to include it. Who knows? I might end up including both Sarasaland and Daisy in the future. If that were to be the case, then I'd put Sarasaland in the southern ocean as an island nation, like how Australia is.

Whew! That certainly was a mouthful! Now that I talked about why certain locations are not on the map, I'll share a little insight on some of the locations on the map. One thing you'll notice right off the bat is that I included not only the worlds from the Rare Donkey Kong games, but also a few places from Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie. I realize that those locations are more like Microsoft locations than Nintendo ones, but since those are two of my favorite games growing up and they were originally Nintendo worlds, I just had to include them. Besides, since I heard from somewhere (probably the Rare Scribbles) that Banjo is part of the Brother's Bears, it makes sense to include Spiral Mountain as part of their territory. Also, before you say anything, I know that where the Brother's Bear live is supposed to be an island south of DK Island and I heard that Spiral Mountain is part of the Isle o' Hags. It felt right to me that these places should be on the mainland as opposed to making them islands. On a related note, I actually wanted to include the Kingdom of the Fairy Panther King on this map (it would have been north of the Brothers Bear's land). I just couldn't make it fit in a good way, so I had to drop it. Sad

Speaking of the Brothers Bear's land, I know it's supposed to be called the Northern Kremisphere. My logic is that the Northern Kremisphere is not just one place, but rather the entire northern half of the planet this world is on. Basically, my reason is that I needed to call the planet something. I originally went with the generic, uninspired name of Virtual Planet many years ago, but when I went to Lemmy's Land, I adopted Plit as its name. That went fine for a while, but I eventually dropped the name when I found out that the world "plit" actually has a very dirty meaning. After a while, I recalled the name of the Donkey Kong Country 3 overworld and used it as a base for a completely new name: Kremis. On top of that, it even leads to a possibility of exploring the history of the planet and the Kremling race. Now, even though I have a new name for the planet, I still lack a good name for the Brother Bear's world. I would go with Bear Country, but that's already taken… Shy

In regards to places like the Golden Pyramid and Crocodile Island, I know that they are destroyed. I just put them on the map to show their general placement because just showing an arrow wouldn't do those places justice.

I noticed this right after I drew Poshley Heights. It seems like the track for the Exsess Express is a bit shorter than the track leading to Mt. Rugged. I know that this is due to my failure to scale things properly, but I find it ironic that the fastest locomotive in the Mushroom Kingdom takes three days to travel on a track that is shorter than the one traveled by an ordinary locomotive that can easily clear in a fraction of that time. ^^;

Even though I labeled most of the locations, I didn't exactly label all of them because I figured that you could use your general knowledge of the games to identify some of the places on your own. Of course, I thought it would be necessary to lable some places that you might not recognize right off the bat, such as Joke's End and the Old Clockworks.

As for original locations, I didn't exactly include many. I did have plans to do such a thing, but I didn't want to invest too much in ideas that'll easily be shot down. Heck, even placing the ruins of the Mushroom King's Castle was a bit of a risk because I'm not sure if you guys would like my story involving a French Revolution-like event that took place a few hundred years ago that was a revolt lead by Toadsworth's ancestor that overthrew the tyrannical Mushroom King.

Well, that's all I have to share for now. I'm terribly sorry I basically wrote a novel about something as simple as a map from a game about plumbers stomping turtles. There was a lot for me to cover and I wanted to discuss it when it was still fresh in my mind. If there are any questions you wish to ask, please let me know. I'm also up for suggestions to fix the geography for this map because some of the locations are places in very improbable areas. Heck, I'm not pleased with the locations of Cavi Cape and Plack Beach because I just threw them in at the last minute since I forgotten about them.

E-Man · 05-26-2015, 11:18 AM

So, Midi/Kelvin and ShadeDBZ mentioned that Photobucket isn't all that it's cracked up to be and makes it hard for them to see the full map as a result. As a temporary fix, I'll just upload the original version of the map on my Dropbox for you to view.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j2draa4b5ss78e...2.png?dl=0

Anyway, due to their suggestion, I'm consideirng using another image host for now on (likely Minus) once I make the proper adjustments to my Paper Mario sheet.

Speaking of which, I created the inked parts for not only that, but also for the fist few parts for my other two or three characters I am working on.

[Image: Paper%20Mario%20inks%20exp_zps9oyykce2.png~original]

[Image: Paper%20Mario%20inks%20exp_zps9oyykce2.png~original]

Tried to make the ears look like they are pushed out less, much like Xander suggested and I even scaled them up. Do you like them? By the way, I know that the new mouths do not have a complete outline compared to the old versions, but it's the best I could do without having any outline troubles pop up. Also, when I join the mouths together with the head, the outlines might connect in a way that causes an awkward angle. I'm sorry about this.

[Image: Luigi%20Inks%20exp_zpsaeabpcts.png~original]

[Image: Luigi%20Inks%20exp_zpsaeabpcts.png~original]

There's not much to say about Luigi because I'm more or less pleased with the final results. I could probably make either his left arm thinner or his right arm fatter now that I look at it, though. Of course, the one part I did without a sketch is the opposite facing L on his hat. It's nothing too big. I just wanted to get it out of the way since it was a good time to do that. As for the lack of hands and feet, Luigi is borrowing those from Mario. Understandably, I'm glad that I don't have to basically recreate parts that I could simply reuse.

[Image: Koopa%20inks%20exp_zps0o16cqsv.png~original]

[Image: Koopa%20inks%20exp_zps0o16cqsv.png~original]

While I was working on the right arm, I couldn't help but notice how small it was compared to the left one. With that said, I made a larger version. What do you think of it? By the ay, before you ask about the solid feet shapes, I'll ket you know right off the bat that those are for an experiment I wanted to try to speed up my coloring process. I'll let you know if the final results turn out well.

E-Man · 05-27-2015, 12:19 PM

I already colored some of the inked Paper Mario parts, but I just wanted to show you guys the mouth poses in action, since they were bothering me the most.

[Image: Mouth%20fix_zpslsnnrpof.png~original]

[Image: Mouth%20fix_zpslsnnrpof.png~original]

Before you ask, I just grabbed an older version of Mario to help demonstrate the new mouths. As a result, the glove outlines are back to their original color before I changed them up. What do you think of the new versions? Also, I know that the outline connects not so well in that bottom right area. I already fixed it up, so that's no longer a problem. I just didn't do it for this because my computer has been a little unstable today. Due to that, I just wanted to get this preview out and save whatever progress I could before the whole thing crashes.

Koopaul · (This post was last modified: 05-28-2015, 03:43 AM by Koopaul.)

Its kind of silly to exclude Daisy. History? Why does she need a big history? Guess what Peach's history is? She gets kidnapped... A lot. Point is history doesn't matter much in Mario games.

Also you're basing this whole thing around the Koopa Bros... Who were only in one game! And didn't even play that big of a role in the game. I'd argue Daisy has a far greater presence in the Mario series than any character from an RPG. And Nintendo themselves probably value Daisy more than any one off character from Paper Mario.

She's an awesome character with so much personality but you won't include her for silly reasons. Also why overhaul her? She's already got more fun personality than Peach. She's fine as is.

Also excluding Mario Kart tracks. I can understand your reasoning a bit but a lot of those tracks are MORE than just tracks. A lot of them take place in huge cities, vast deserts, mountains, and more. There's no way they could have "demolished" all that.

I'm familiar with people with your mindset. Mario Kart, Party, Sports, whatever "don't count" in your eyes. Therefor any element prominent in them "don't count" like Daisy or Waluigi. I find this silly too. Of course they count. They play a huge role in the entirety of the Marioverse. Just because they lack a plot (even though some of the sports games do have a plot) doesn't mean they don't exist.

Just look at Mario Kart 8. Look at how fleshed out and real the worlds seem in that game. Far more fleshed out than in New Super Mario Bros. Wii2U. Also I feel like the sports games flesh out the Mario characters more than most of the main games do. Their personalities really shine bright in the sports titles and allow a better glimpse at who these characters actually are!

**Kosheh** · (This post was last modified: 05-28-2015, 04:32 AM by Kosheh.)

oh boy, time to argue about mario lexicon on the world wide web Unimpressed

(05-28-2015, 03:22 AM)Koopaul Wrote: Its kind of silly to exclude Daisy. History? Why does she need a big history? Guess what Peach's history is? She gets kidnapped... A lot. Point is history doesn't matter much in Mario games.

Also you're basing this whole thing around the Koopa Bros... Who were only in one game! And didn't even play that big of a role in the game. I'd argue Daisy has a far greater presence in the Mario series than any character from an RPG. And Nintendo themselves probably value Daisy more than any one off character from Paper Mario.

She's an awesome character with so much personality but you won't include her for silly reasons. Also why overhaul her? She's already got more fun personality than Peach. She's fine as is.

It's sorta hypocritical that you're saying "Oh, Daisy's so awesome, what a great personality" when she's only starred in one "canonical" Mario game and that's as the fairly silent damsel in distress. It's about as effective as trying to shoehorn Waluigi into Mario canon - who doesn't really fit other than to exist as Scum Of The Earth (no, seriously - Mario God came down and when Waluigi turned 18, he gave Waluigi two choices: to not be the scum of the earth, or to be really good at sports and other intramural Mario activities. Guess which one he chose)

Sure, she's really loud and "Hi, I'm Daisy!" but that's not to say she'd just be as literally flat as any given Paper Mario character (literally flat, as in like a personality of paper)

That said, if he wants to explore the personalities of Daisy and/or the Koopa Bros and expand upon them, he can go right on ahead. Of course they're not going to be 100% par to the character - but that's the fun in fanworks.

...actually, I remember you quoting Miyamoto before on a topic similar to this, but it seems relevant atm.

Miyamoto, aka Mario Dad Wrote:If you're familiar with things like Popeye and some of the old comic characters, you would oftentimes see this cast of characters that takes on different roles depending on the comic or cartoon. They might be businessman in one [cartoon] or a pirate in another. Depending on the story that was being told, they would change roles. So, to a certain degree, I look at our characters in a similar way and feel that they can take on different roles in different games. It's more like they're one big family, or maybe a troupe of actors.

Basically the general personalities of the characters wouldn't necessarily carry over from one game to another. And if E-Man's portrayal of certain characters/headcanon doesn't quite line up with "general Mario canon" or whatever, don't worry: what's important is that he's telling a story where the troupe of actors is portraying the role E-Man wishes to fulfill within his overarching storyline.

That said, E-Man, I honestly...wouldn't try to thread together the entire Mushroom Kingdom and attempt to make it work - like you don't have to worry about the Kremispheres etc. As of lately, DK just kinda jumps on out of the Kongo Jungle and goes to bizarre places and ends up back in the Kongo Jungle at the end. I'd try to just bring the Paper Mario universe together - like don't worry about Beanbean, don't worry about Sasarasa Land - just tell your story, and if Daisy acts a little strange, she's from a kingdom to the East of the Mushroom Kingdom where everyone's a bit more animated ;P

tl;dr throw lexicon out the window and do your thing. just don't fill the story with self-inserts and you're good to go

E-Man · 05-28-2015, 11:29 AM

Right then, the both of you make very good points. It was a lot for me to chew over, but here's my two cents on what I gathered from all this.

Basically, it's not that I don't count the non-RPG spinoffs. It's just that they are extremely hard to include without making drastic changes to the geography. If the story demands for the characters to visit those places, I'll simply include them on the map (with some reasonable tweaks, of course). Also, Koopaul, you raise a good point about how much life there is in the Mario Kart 8 tracks. If you look at a track like Wild Woods, I can honestly see that being a nice town found in one of the Kingdom's forests (possibly the Dimble Wood). With that said, I don't mind including locations from that game. As for my statement of demolishing the tracks, I didn't mean that's the case necessary. While it is inevitable that some tracks might fall into a state of disrepair and possibly bulldozed to make room for new features, that's not the case for others, such as the Moo Moo Farm tracks and the city tracks (wherever those are on the map). In the case for the latter, they probably just closed certain roads in a way that makes them full fledged racetracks. Once it's over, they simply reopen them to the public. In other words, even if the tracks do not exist anymore, the places those tracks once existed are still there.

Now, with that all said, I'm still going to do my best to include as many Mario locations in this world. While I do acknowledge that it's a lot of hard work to make it run smoothly and I don't have to do this, Kosheh, I feel like it would be worth the effort to at least give it a solid try. You see, there are some locations and characters that I honestly do want to include in my series (Thwomp Volcano, Broque Monsieur, Booster, King Boo, the Shroobs, etc.). While it is possible for me to just include the locations associated with each character and landmark, I felt like it would be a shame to just stop there and call it a day. It would even allow more chances to build the world, such as having characters make plans to a trip to Plack Beach for some surf and sand time. Plus, since this is also the reason why I made the map, I want to show certain locations from the distance (ala Super Mario Sunshine) to help establish Mario's world as a believable place. You get what I'm saying?

As for why I'm a bit antsy about using Daisy…

Anyway, I'm sorry that I unwittingly started a heated debate and I sounded like an overall worrywart. I just want to tread a little carefully and just toss ideas around to see which ones are the most effective. Overall, I appreciate the feedback from both you guys. Just hang tight as I offer completed parts and, eventually, new ideas to the table.

Koopaul · (This post was last modified: 05-28-2015, 02:02 PM by Koopaul.)

Did you read my post Kosheh? Why do you not count the sports and party games? Why does Daisy have to be in platformers in order to count as a prominent Mario character?

If we were judging Mario characters based on their platformer appearances alone then pretty much NO one has a personality in the series. In the platformer games you barely get to see the characters express themselves.

Also its quite obvious you haven't played a lot of Mario games starring Daisy. She's only said "Hi I'm Daisy!" in ONE game! If you played things like Mario Power Tennis or Fortune Street or a ton of other games you'd see that Daisy does have a big personality. I observe the personality through the animations and voice acting.

Again I don't get why the sports and party games don't count. Daisy and Waluigi have a ton of merchandise and are prominantly featured in a lot of Mario promotional material. So Nintendo certainly thinks they count!

And I can't even imagine why you hate Waluigi. Probably a very silly reason like "He was just created as a partner for Wario." So? So was Luigi. He was created just as a pallet swap player 2 for Mario Bros. Every Mario character has some lame origin or reason for creation. You should know that.

Edit:I'm sorry E-Man... This is your project and you can do whatever you want. Its just that I hear the same arguments made over Daisy and Waluigi all the time and it always bugs me. This has nothing to do with your project.

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