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#16
Okay, I forgot there was confusion over things. I guess I'll clear some things up

Specials (according to me/Gors) were just extra moves that could be done with a QCF/QCB + Kick/Punch. Didn't really use a meter or anything

Gognios were (according to me/Gors) were a hail Mary move. If your health was below a certain percent (like, one pixel left or sleeting) you could perform your Gognio move. If it hits, it's an instant KO (or does a lot of damage, I forgot which tbh) and if it misses, you're KO'd. They were supposed to be pretty hard to connect to make them kind of balanced.

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#17
The way Gognios are applied in my current build of the game is that they are super moves that use a large portion of the Gognio meter. The Spritalities as moves that can only be performed when you meet certain conditions in the last round of gameplay and have a full Gognio meter. I've added Gognio moves to my version, but not Spritalities yet.
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#18
Honestly, that's better than the previous deal. I think the original deal rewarded someone for getting beat up and taking damage

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#19
(05-28-2014, 06:42 PM)Tellis Wrote:
(05-28-2014, 02:53 PM)Kosheh Wrote: - One person who has notable experience with fighting games, advanced techniques and game balance to figure out the in-depth game mechanics (I'd have said "me" some time ago or "Tyvon" even longer ago, but now I'd suggest someone like, oh, Tellis for this job, for example

I'd be pretty down to do that! I've actually been wanting to put together a really comprehensive (like with pictures and screenshots and pretty formatting) of the game's mechanics so there's no confusion over them for people making their characters. Like, it's not super clear with everyone how exactly Specials and Gognios work, or assists work so it'd be nice to just have a post to point at and go "here, look, it's pretty and informative". Of course, that means I have to ask a few clarifying questions. And decide on some hard numbers (how many levels of meter can we have, how many assists, etc.) so there's absolutely no confusion on that.

Also that post will probably have to wait until school cools down a bit... or this quarter ends. Whichever comes first.

If you can get that down, I'd be glad to help compile all of the information into the reference thread C:

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#20
So I guess I should ask those clarifying questions here...

From what I gather there's pretty much four types of moves:

Basic moves: Self explanatory, just the standard two buttons and directions, punches and kicks, whatever

Special moves: This is stuff like your hadoukens (fireballs) and shoryukens (uppercuts) and atomic busters (really powerful grab moves). Generally in most fighting games these almost NEVER spend meter so you can use them all the time, and are simply "special" since they require a specific input beyond just "button + direction". They aren't finishers and usually aren't even that flashy, they're just part of your moveset/options.

GOGNIO moves: Now from what I can tell, these are basically what most fighting game people call either "super moves" or "desperation moves". Street Fighter 3 calls them Super Arts, Marvel vs Capcom calls them Hyper Combos,Soul Calibur V calls them Critical Edges, Guilty Gear calls them Overdrive Attacks, Street Fighter IV has two variations that use different meters, both Super and Ultra Combos... you get the picture I think. All of these examples cost meter, which, in TFR's case is the GOGNIO meter... thus GOGNIO moves! I am assuming we are planning to have the meter fill like most games, which is that it goes up with every hit dealt and received, usually rewarding more for giving damage over receiving damage (because why reward sucking, amirite?). GOGNIOs (and all super moves) are usually flashy, over the top attacks that could be anything from an automated giant string of normal attacks (King of Fighters has a lot of this, for example) or a more powerful version of a special move (think Shinku Hadoken compared to a normal Hadoken) or temporary invincibility or the ability to recover your health bar (Athena from KoF has this, for example) or even a transformation to a more powerful form for a limited time (think Giga Bowser or the werewolf guy from BlazBlue).

The purpose of these moves can be to further solidify a win, to increase your options, or to change momentum to your favor. They can be seen as a way to earn a victory from what would otherwise be defeat (thus the name "desperation moves"), however, an inexperienced player shouldn't be able to rely solely on these moves and win consistently against more experienced players. Which is why super moves often come with their own dangers. Obviously spending your best moves willy nilly is bad due to it wasting meter, but super moves also tend to leave you wide open if you miss with an initial hit, either due to the lengthy animation of the attack itself, or a cooldown period after the animation finishes. Or in the case of, say, Athena's healing super, she can easily be knocked out of the animation from any hit, stopping the healing (effectively wasting meter too) and leaving her wide open for a counterattack. Transformations are the odd ones out here because they don't "hit" like a normal super but the tradeoff is that the player must know how to use the transformation effectively instead of following a "fire and forget" mentality. But I think that's the general idea we've got so far for GOGNIO as well? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Spritalities: So obviously they're named after Mortal Kombat's Fatalities, which were set up like this: after a player wins their second round, the opponent stands up, dazed, while the words "Finish him/her" appear. From there you can either just hit them once, they fall over and the round is over, or you can enter a special input which does your Fatality, a gruesome, over the top finisher that kills the opponent (ripping out their spine, freezing them and shattering them, etc etc).

However, I don't think we should do that. Because I think Fatality mechanics are hella boring. Instead I think we should model them after the Instant Kill moves found in Aksys' fighting games, like Guilty Gear, Blazblue and Persona 4 Arena. Basically instead of flashy showboating AFTER the match is decided, it's basically more of a humiliation through ending the fight in a flashy showboating way. Now, all three of the games I mentioned do it different ways. Guilty Gear's can be used any time, and is activated by pressing all four buttons (which has your character do a really obvious "hey I'm going into Instant Kill mode" animation) and then you do the input for the attack itself (it's the same for most characters) and if it hits, bam, you won the round. However, if you miss the attack, you lose your whole meterfor the rest of the match. Blazblue's IKs only work if it's the match point and the opponent is at 20% health or below and you have a full meter. Persona 4 Arena's has similar requirements (match point) but YOU must be at low health, not the opponent (making it much more of "comeback" move than a way of rubbing it in your opponent's face). Basically what I propose is to keep the name Spritality but change it so it works more similarly to an Instant Kill system instead. I think most of the current character Spritalities could easily work this way anyway (though some may need a bit of tweaking/extra animation).


Um, so I guess my main question is, how are we formatting the GOGNIO bar itself? Some games have just the one bar while others have multiple levels you can rack up (with certain specials spending multiple levels, certain common techniques spending parts of meter etc.)

From what most people have been saying it's a single bar but I think we should agree on how it should be set up. However, a lot of Capcom fighting games like to have multiple meters so you can build them up over the course of a match (Marvel vs Capcom 3 has you with a total of 5 bars) instead of constantly managing one bar. However, these mechanics usually belong to games based around tag teams, where there's a lot of meter spending between a group of character. I think a single bar is the most simplistic way of planning it out, especially if GOGNIO moves are the only thing that will spend it, but I think it's mostly a matter of personal taste. So what do you guys think?


... also sorry that this turned into a giant essay, I got a bit carried away while I was bored waiting for class to start. I just wanted to be super detailed so nothing was misunderstood. I hope all of my assumptions are correct! If any of you take the time to read that I thank you wholeheartedly. And thanks for any comments, suggestions or clarifying responses!
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#21
I agree with your commentary on the Spritality functionality (and not just because of the fact it's easier for me to program, but partially so. xD). Perhaps my take on it should be after I explain how I set this up:

(05-29-2014, 04:33 PM)Tellis Wrote: Um, so I guess my main question is, how are we formatting the GOGNIO bar itself? Some games have just the one bar while others have multiple levels you can rack up (with certain specials spending multiple levels, certain common techniques spending parts of meter etc.)

Right now in the current build of the game, the Gognio meter fills up letter by letter, each letter filling after a certain number of attacks or hits against you. Successful attacks fill the meter faster than getting hit, though. Knowing that a full Gognio bar was needed for Spritalities, I made Gognio moves require only part of the Gognio bar, 3 letters for all the moves I've implemented so far (which is technically only one, I changed two specials FROM Gognio status because it's what the creators envisioned and I just did them as tests for the mechanic anyway).

Here's what I suggest for the Spritalities, if we plan to have them work in the middle of a match instead of at the end: in the Fighter Maker engine, there's a maxmimum of 9 chargeable "bars" for specials. As of yet I've only had a use for 6 bars, but what if, let's say, I increased it to 9 bars? Then the Spritalities can only be performed with all 9 bars filled, while also giving players access to more Gognios, if they choose to do that instead. The Gognio meter won't be able to fill to 9 at all in the first round, and will be difficult to do in the second, but can likely be filled by the 3rd round.

So, if there are no objections, that's the way I'd like to make the mechanic work if we were to do it during normal gameplay. As I said in my program thread, I have yet to figure out how to properly program a proper Mortal Kombat style ending to a match. This would make programming smoother and I think it would also fill players with a bit of dread knowing they can die instantly if they aren't careful.


EDIT: Also there's no reason to change the bar much. What I plan is either making it glow in stages for the 7th, 8th and 9th bar, or, the version I thought up second but I like even better, is adding exclamation points to the end of the bar for a max of three. The exclamation points wouldn't be there until you charged over six bars, though, giving you a sense of "extra power".
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#22
as long as discussion is angling toward clarifying game aspects, i have a question:

do we--or should we--have a standard number of palettes for characters?

chris2balls, lexou, and nicktendo have four, and i can trim my five down to four, too, but most everyone else has anywhere between one and three. we could have palette selection be similar to the way it was done in the first smash bros.; after you've selected your character, pressing the directional buttons would change their palette, with up being the default.
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#23
The Fighter Maker engine has as many as 8 per character. So go nuts if you want.
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#24
Okay, so I don't know where else to put this nor who to address it to in particular, so here goes.

Metaru has been keeping an eye on TFR quite regularly, and wishes to continue working on his sheet and generally contributing to the project. I don't know if he's contacted any members of staff, but he's afraid of getting insta-banned the moment he starts posting here.
Personally, I see Metaru as a decent member who, despite the past harsh words and attitude, has given a lot to this community. I'd be very happy to see him back, especially as he's asking to come back. I trust him.

I'm making an appeal so that we can put the reasons he was banned to one side, and restore his account to allow him to help us out with this. So please staff, can we at least give Metaru a chance?
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#25
i don't really know who this metaru guy is.
i saw some sheets ripped by him on spriters resource i guess...
but i think he should get a second chance.
i had been banned from some other forum because just one moderator didn't like me.
he didn't wanted to gimme a second chance even with a lot of others users asking him to do so.
i think you should unban this guy.i bet he will make it.
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#26
There's been several worse members who had been banned and then unbanned, I don't see why Metaru shouldn't be given another chance

I mean shit, even Kyertuck was given a second chance before

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#27
(06-10-2014, 01:29 PM)Chris2Balls [:B] Wrote: Okay, so I don't know where else to put this nor who to address it to in particular, so here goes.

Metaru has been keeping an eye on TFR quite regularly, and wishes to continue working on his sheet and generally contributing to the project. I don't know if he's contacted any members of staff, but he's afraid of getting insta-banned the moment he starts posting here.
Personally, I see Metaru as a decent member who, despite the past harsh words and attitude, has given a lot to this community. I'd be very happy to see him back, especially as he's asking to come back. I trust him.

I'm making an appeal so that we can put the reasons he was banned to one side, and restore his account to allow him to help us out with this. So please staff, can we at least give Metaru a chance?

We discussed this in the staff forum over a month ago and decided not to allow him to be unbanned.
I even talked to Metaru myself before it so I understand what's happening but the decision has already been made.
He's more than welcome to finish his sheet and be in the game (and I encourage that) but he's not allowed to post anymore.
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#28
(06-10-2014, 11:53 PM)Vipershark Wrote: We discussed this in the staff forum over a month ago and decided not to allow him to be unbanned.
I even talked to Metaru myself before it so I understand what's happening but the decision has already been made.
He's more than welcome to finish his sheet and be in the game (and I encourage that) but he's not allowed to post anymore.

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#29
Unfortunately, VGR is not SHIELD and you're not Nick Fury.
I realize that it's a disappointing outcome but Metaru is not getting unbanned, sorry.
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#30
Before this gets too far out of hand, let me just step in and explain a couple of things.

First, Chris, while I understand where you're coming from, one of the main rules on the site states explicitly that posting things for banned members is not allowed. I'll let it slide this time since you weren't trying to do anything malicious here but just keep that in mind.

Now, on the subject at hand, Metaru's second chance has come and gone long ago. He's had many, many chances. Far more than most others have gotten. Time and time again, this request comes up from people that don't fully know his history, the debates we've had regarding unbanning him, and the reasons why he was banned. And every single time, we agree that the correct decision was made and that it won't be overturned.

So, let me make this very clear. Metaru will not be unbanned. As Vipershark said, he's welcome to continue participating in TFR from the outside but not on the forum itself. His past and/or present contributions to the community do not excuse the behavior that led to his banning, especially given how lenient we were with him for so long.

I'm sorry, I know this isn't what you wanted to hear but he's had too many chances and this has come up too many times to beat around the bush. I normally wouldn't even go into this much detail regarding a banned member given that it's really a private matter between staff and the member in question but his case has come up enough times to justify it this once. Any further requests regarding Metaru will be referred to this post from here on.
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