Are things slower around here?

[Gwen]

The point of my post wasn't to brag that I'll be getting a synth...

Viper, certain projects failed in the past because of the people involved, and also the fact that school can interfere; but really if those past projects really wanted to, they could have just been put on a hiatus just while school was going. With a proper plan, collaborations could easily be done, and that's really not that hard to do. So yeah, I can say you're wrong, because the fact that past collaborations failed doesn't mean with a proper plan a new one would as well. And part of the reason stuff like TUGS failed was because deadlines were never enforced, and thus everybody just figured they could be lazy and just keep pushing for a new deadline, and then school happened. With a stricter hand and rigid enforcement, TUGS would easily be a success (AND there's been interest in another one from many people, expressed all over the forums(including me as well)).

[Vipershark]

The point of my post wasn't to brag that I'll be getting a synth...

That's not what I was saying; I was talking particularly about the solo project part, while the thread is more about forum-wide activity as opposed to one person doing one thing.

Viper, certain projects failed in the past because of the people involved, and also the fact that school can interfere; but really if those past projects really wanted to, they could have just been put on a hiatus just while school was going.

We also tried that more than once. It didn't work. The projects died.

With a proper plan, collaborations could easily be done, and that's really not that hard to do. So yeah, I can say you're wrong, because the fact that past collaborations failed doesn't mean with a proper plan a new one would as well. And part of the reason stuff like TUGS failed was because deadlines were never enforced, and thus everybody just figured they could be lazy and just keep pushing for a new deadline, and then school happened. With a stricter hand and rigid enforcement, TUGS would easily be a success (AND there's been interest in another one from many people, expressed all over the forums(including me as well)).

If you've got some sort of other plan, I'm all ears. The reasons every TUGS had to be pushed out was because if they WEREN'T pushed out, there would have been ZERO completed entries in most rounds. You can't exactly have a competition if nobody finishes it.
It's not like this is a recent problem, either. Yeah, it's a whole lot worse now than it used to be, but this isn't a new concept. Are you unfamiliar with the whole "tsr projects never get finished" thing?

[Gwen]

It doesn't really send a message to people to get their shit together and finish for a deadline if the deadline keeps getting pushed back. Sure it might kill a lot of competition that time around, but it lets people know that they can't hijack and hold hostage the contest because they're too lazy to finish it.

Also no I'm not, I remember plenty of projects that died out, but just because projects have failed in the past, that doesn't mean we all(well you) should hold this attitude that TSR can't complete anything, because if the people involved set to it, then it can be done, random circumstances be damned. Another thing is that the past few years had a lot of turbulence involving members(involving those who were usually key people to the project in mind, but it definitely seems like we've gotten out of that and have gotten a steady member base for the forums.

[Vipershark]

It's not just me.

We might have a steady member base, but of the like... 20 people who regularly post here (not counting the resource areas, those might as well be a separate forum), who actually does much of anything outside of frequent Real Life and Gaming? It's no secret that the Spriting and Creativity areas haven't been getting anywhere near as much activity.

Gorsal comes in every once in a while with a fun topic to try to get things going, but it only lasts for so long. There are only so many times we can "try the weekly compos again!!!" with a still-dying userbase before someone steps up and realizes that things aren't working.

If we want to revitalize the forums, we need new members who are willing to post new things. Doing the same old things with the same 20 people won't bring anything new or exciting to the table.

[psychospacecow]

The resource would have some connections wouldn't it? Maybe get a word out via some site like Dorkly, or DYKG (though that's kind of connected now isn't it?).
I'm sure a few people here and there wouldn't mind the publicity to some kind of agreement.

[Gwen]

So we just hope that new members come along?

Don'tcha think something like a big project MIGHT attract some new users? That's how I found my way to Mcleod, to help out with Super Smash Flash 2, and then I found my way here, because I found the stuff you guys were doing way cooler, and the people didn't suck like at Mcleod. Projects attract new people, these friendly competitions have brought out some new people, and just because we don't have too many people doesn't mean something like TUGS wouldn't work, if we get them rolling again, that'll attract more people as well.

[Vipershark]

One project won't keep people around unless it's the main focus of the site (like if we were making Minecraft or something)
It might attract a few new faces, but if we don't have anything else to keep people coming back (as in, stuff going on all around the forums instead of one or two areas plus one project thread) then... they won't come back.

We've had countless projects; pokemon pink, koopaul's banjo-kazooie, etc but they don't hold interest.
Even TUGS brings in a few people for a while but they don't stay around because the rest of the forum is so boring that there's no reason to stay.

[Gwen]

One project won't keep people around unless it's the main focus of the site (like if we were making Minecraft or something)
It might attract a few new faces, but if we don't have anything else to keep people coming back (as in, stuff going on all around the forums instead of one or two areas plus one project thread) then... they won't come back.

We've had countless projects; pokemon pink, koopaul's banjo-kazooie, etc but they don't hold interest.
Even TUGS brings in a few people for a while but they don't stay around because the rest of the forum is so boring that there's no reason to stay.

All I keep seeing from you is excuses as for why trying something won't work. No duh one project isn't enough, but if we have a few projects at a time, or one after another(hint hint: they don't have to be grand scale/massive projects, they can be moderately small), then it'll build momentum, and the same goes for TUGS, along with maybe setting up smaller competitions akin to Gor's weekly challenges. Also another way to promote growth in other areas such as the music and modeling, set up contests or projects for those, get collaborations going, and that could possibly draw in new, different faces as well.

PS: That bolded part's really not true, crazily negative, and something I don't feel a moderator should be saying

[Vipershark]

Feel free to step up and make several projects then, I guess.

The bolded is unfortunately negative, yeah, but that doesn't make it any less true. Ignoring the elephant in the room won't exactly fix the problem and I wouldn't be a very good mod if I couldn't speak objectively about things and just said "yeah the forum's great!" and shut down any discussion on it.
It's no secret that we have an aging and declining userbase (both as a cause to and as a result of) declining activity.

I've been saying these same things since LONG before I was modded, dude. This isn't a recent thing, it's been going on for a really long time. Tyvon was saying these same things when he was a mod, as were 1up and several other people and that was years ago. When I first became a mod, I went through and completely overhauled the rules and tried to get things on track, but one person can't do it alone. That goes for me, Gorsal, or anyone else. Even Previous tried to do it in his own way and it didn't work for him either. It takes the entire community working together to fix these things, but as I said before, most people either don't care, don't have time, or don't have the skill.

(As an aside, don't take this to mean that I'm not trying to do anything about it; we have several plans in the pipeline, they just aren't ready yet.)

---

The resource would have some connections wouldn't it? Maybe get a word out via some site like Dorkly, or DYKG (though that's kind of connected now isn't it?).
I'm sure a few people here and there wouldn't mind the publicity to some kind of agreement.

Sorry, I didn't mean to skip your post.

We (well, I can't speak for everyone, but I know I and a few other people) were hoping that the existence of VGFacts would bring in a buttload of new membership to tSR. I guess somewhere along the line there was a breakdown in communication and we were under the impression that there would be a community merger, which would bring DYKG's userbase to tSR and tSR's expertise to DYKG. As we're all aware now, that didn't exactly happen.

VGF has its own completely separate forum, and aside from you, as far as I know the only VGF member that ever came here was A Zombie Riot and he only posted for about a week.

[Kriven]

You guys are being kind of ridiculous. I don't expect spriters to learn modeling/music for the sake of promoting those aspects of the site, or even to learn them at all if they don't want to. But representing the whole site as spriting, when it no longer is, is not going to draw members of those other communities. It's going to make them think: "Oh, it's that spriting place" and go for greener pastures.

[Vipershark]

What do you propose we do, then? Both Gorsal and I replied to that on the last page.

The problem isn't "it's a spriting forum", it's "everyone here is either apathetic and/or lazy and/or just doesn't have time."

Well, it's not like anyone here (specifically outside of tMR) can make 3D models (or else there'd be activity in the SHE WANTS THE 3D thread) or sound effects or textures, so uh...
I guess we're still going with the same thing we've been going with for a decade?

care to show your new 3D models then?


or your new music album?


Like Vipershark said, literally no one here makes things other than spriting tbh. And those who know music or modelling literally doesn't care about teaching like we do with sprites. This is why they aren't big.

I did the She wants the 3D thread so I could experiment and learn things with the modellers. Everything I learned here was by myself.

I'm all for expanding things and adding in programming and modeling (like I said; plans in the pipeline!!!) but these things take time.
So in the meantime, what do you propose we do when almost nobody on the site does these things?

[Gors]

Do you know what's funny?

Everyone is quick to jump in and say that tSR is slow, but no one here actually have the balls to do something (not an insult: this is how humans usually act anyway)

I mean, I make my own stuff, I have a job, I arrive home late but that doesn't avoid me from taking care of the site and coming up with small competitions, or even projects and ideas. The halloween event was planned by Sengir and me; the Christmas special was entirely my work, with Dazz's amazing support. I do my best to make it move and have some activity, but it's impossible to move a whole community with just my power. My name being in red doesn't really help either: motivation or initiative does not come from hierarchy at all.

You all could be making projects and/or interesting stuff and pitching them, or even make your own sprite compos. This is a community after all, you don't need the staff's approval for everything. And even if you did, how many of you contacted us to ask if you could hold compos?




Exactly.

Also Kriven, that's kind of ridiculous also. Basically you're saying "See guys, tSR isn't about sprites anymore, it's music and 3D now" and then you say "no one is forced to learn music or 3D". Sure, no one is forced to, I agree, but if there is no learning curve at all then that makes the first affirmation moot. There should be some place that really encourages teaching, too bad no one does. I mean, the only person that really helped me in that 3D thread was Vipershark.

Basically Vipershark's saying that due to the talented AND apathetic members, no projects will be completed. I want you to prove him wrong.

[Maxpphire]

Fun fact: I actually don't know how to sprite and I was a staff member for 3 years, and I've been on this forum for like almost 10 years now.

I help out with what I can, I make threads n stuff and help people the best I can regardless.

If you think it is moving slow, or complain about none of the projects being completed, then do something about it. Like Gors said, it can't be a bustling community if no one is willing to do it.

[Vipershark]

Do you know what's funny?

Everyone is quick to jump in and say that tSR is slow, but no one here actually have the balls to do something (not an insult: this is how humans usually act anyway)

Hopefully what I've got coming soon will help put things on the right path.

[Gors]

Your initiative is great but I'd like to see the normal members come up with something also. I still have hope for this community as a whole, and I know that everyone here is capable of doing things. You just need to want it.