Ummm... Is Mario really a good guy?

[E-Man]

I always thought that Mario was a mild mannered man who is friendly to everyone, but after watching this, I start to question who would be better to save the Mushroom Kingdom.



I understand that he imprisoned Donkey Kong (or Cranky Kong before he became an old fart) and tosses Yoshi into a pit to get a boost, but what kind of brother treats his younger sibling like rubbish on a regular basis? Also, punching Yoshi? I thought he liked the dino.

Tell me what you think of this? Is Mario really that squeaky clean as we think he is?

[Kriven]

I think Mario himself isn't such a bad guy... I mean, being more of an avatar, Mario is whoever the player makes him out to be.

It's Princess Peach who's the vile one, sending her armies out with her ace hero to claim large portions of land. Super Mario World wasn't a picnic, it was a scouting mission!

[Vipershark]

what kind of brother treats his younger sibling like rubbish on a regular basis?

mine

[Koopaul]

I always hate that Yoshi abuse excuse they make. It has been explained before that Mario is not punching Yoshi but pointing forward, giving direction.

http://www.mariowiki.com/File:YoshiBerrySMW.jpg

As for leaping off of Yoshi's back into a pit, that's the players choice, not an involuntary action of Mario himself.

Oh yeah its no secret that Mario is kind of a dick to Luigi but most brothers are. When push comes to shove he really does love Luigi.

Oh and that Wiggler thing is bullshit. In Mario 64 Wiggler was corrupted by the Power Star and when Mario beats it out of him, he's happy again.

The only thing this video has on Mario is his abuse to Cranky. I'm gonna say that was before he became a true hero.

[Kriven]

"When push comes to shove he really does love Luigi."

Lots of absuive people might genuinely care about the people they abuse, but that doesn't make it justifiable.

Sorry, you hit a trigger.

[Koopaul]

I wouldn't call any of that "abuse". More just teasing.

[Kitsu]

"Teasing" can be abuse, too.

---

A proper response to this would probably have to be like, a whole paper lol.
But in short, Mario's "good-ness" is relative; he does whatever he deems necessary (often defaulting to violence, though many games allow the player to simply ignore most threats instead) to achieve his goals, and the player simply agrees with it because Mario is the perspective character and is framed against other characters who are generally worse in a typical cartoonish rendering of "good vs. evil."

Of course, this is in service to the gameplay. As it stands, violence is often chosen as the primary conflict resolution tactic in games as it's pretty much the easiest to understand and may cause more excitement (I don't know if these are because of purely biological reasons or societal conditioning, though).

[Koopaul]

Eh Mario has never done anything my brother and I haven't done to each other. I remember one time I was playing video games and was about to win the F-Zero Grand Prix when my bro pulled the GCN cord out of the system causing me to crash. Another time I locked him out of the house just because I wanted the TV.

Point is, we do some pretty dickish things to eachother way worse than Mario has to Luigi. But when I had Apendicitis, my brother was standing there in the hospital with a very concerned look on his face. We really do love each other and we go on vacations together all the time.

In the Mario & Luigi games you can really see how much Mario cares about Luigi.

I guess this is something brothers understand.

[Kitsu]

Well, experiences are different for different people, of course. For some, brotherly teasing, even when it sometimes borders on the homicidal side, can be thought of as a mostly positive thing. In other cases though, it could turn out to cause actual lasting damage and drive a wedge between siblings, even if the majority of the 'teasing' seems relatively less severe at first glance. Not really sure what exactly are the magical determining factors, if there even are any, but it definitely does happen.



I'd say in the case of Mario and Luigi, it's mostly the type that you describe. In a way, within the M & L games, I get this sense as though Mario is the only person who's really valued Luigi much (besides, like, Peach or someone like that), and he seems to have a genuinely great relationship with his brother despite their occasional spats. I'd say Mario's biggest flaw regarding his brother might be how he seems to refuse to stand up for Luigi when other people are rude.

[Kriven]

It wasn't what was meant that bothered me so much as how it was said.

"Oh yeah its no secret that Mario is kind of a dick to Luigi but most brothers are. When push comes to shove he really does love Luigi."

That's so vague it can be applied to so many situations, including ones of legitimate abuse.

"Oh, your mom doesn't mean it, you know she loves you."

[Koopaul]

Well you should know what it meant. It's not about how its said, it's about the context of the conversation we're having. Do I have to be super elaborate when speaking of the Mario Bros relationship? Just because it's "vague" doesn't mean it doesn't work here in this context.

[Kriven]

Okay, but the context is whether or not a person is terrible and why.

So yeah, in that context how you say things matters.

[E-Man]

Okay, maybe Mario isn't as bad as Game Theory points him out to be. Sure, it's no secret that he abused Cranky and his son, but the rest of those things are more or less excusable. For both Wiggler bosses, he didn't know he was destroying the home of the Wiggler in Super Mario 64, while he didn't have much of a choice about the Wiggler in Super Mario Sunshine. He either had to knock him down or let him stay up there and kill a bird made of sand. Besides, how was he supposed to know if the Wiggler would listen to reason?

Also, in regards to Luigi, I think he's starting to get better at respecting him. In the most recent Mario and Luigi game, they do an incredible job working together (especially in the giant battles). As for the sequel to Luigi's Mansion...

Spoiler

When Luigi frees Mario from the sketch, Mario personally thanks his brother and praises him.

It's Princess Peach who's the vile one, sending her armies out with her ace hero to claim large portions of land. Super Mario World wasn't a picnic, it was a scouting mission!

Since you mentioned it, Kriven, exactly why is Peach the ruler of the Mushroom Kingdom? It's not like she does anything and it seems like only Bowser is able to get things done. Besides, aren't his minions working for him out of love and respect instead of fear?

[Jermungandr]

Same reason the British royal family is in power. She was just born into it, as shown in Partners in Time.

Unlike the British royal family*, though, she is actually useful. She's been shown several times to be adept at keeping her kingdom peaceful and happy, and when there is a crisis in the Mushroom Kingdom she is willing to take charge and get to the bottom of things (as evidenced well at the beginning of Bowser's Inside Story).

I don't think she's a bad ruler, simply that she hasn't been given many opportunities within the actual games to really show what she can do as an executive (mostly because the games begin with her being kidnapped). But it's strongly implied that outside the games she is a decent and well-loved ruler.


* This is just a joke please don't ban me.

[Gors]

I think that it's dumb to burn your brain with 'iconic' features of a given universe; Everything in a game like this serve as an icon for simple tasks; they're just avatars that you control to defeat enemies that were set up for that task. (but that's me being boring as always)

Logicness aside, Mario is not 100% good or evil, because he is an 'actor' kind of thing. Depending on the game he is pitched to be good or bad. Nowadays Mario has solidified into a good guy mostly, but I think that the reason Mario doesn't really react in some things (and doesn't talk) is because you are supposed to be his thinking. But that could be false, I don't know.

As for brotherly relationships, anyone who uses his/her own situation as the 'default' situation should think twice before posting here because just because someone is your sibling it doesn't mean they can't be a fucking prick. Or that they can't be empathetic and caring of each other. In the case of Mario/Luigi, I'd say that he is not much of a dick. Mario have always been the star of the eponymous series, but if they really were terrible brothers, they wouldn't try saving each other, or working together to defeat enemies. This is emphasized in this year even, being the Year of Luigi and all.