New here looking for C&C

[Vipershark]

I don't think this is what you people are really like. I've looked around at the other threads here, and you don't seem to act this way to everyone else, telling them nothing except how much they suck and then having the entire forum jump on them when they don't agree. For some reason you all seem to be treating me like I'm some enemy you need to defeat, as opposed to another person who's trying to get help.

Actually, we do this all the time, to everyone. tSR is quite notorious for this.

It's just that the "other threads" you read were by people that actually took our crits and used them to improve rather than complaining about people calling their art bad or insulting them(which never actually happened, btw). Crits without sugarcoating do not count as insults.

Look, I'm not trying to come off as the bad guy here or whatever.
I want to help you out, but if you won't listen to what we're saying, there's absolutely nothing we can do for you.

[Knight9910]

Right, SNK style is what I'm going for here.

Hmm...I think the biggest problem is my colors are too dull. They really do look kind of greyed out...maybe if I used more vibrant colors I could get better contrast.

[Cshad]

Knight, don't be a moron. No one here has told you your work was terrible. No one here has made you out to be the bad guy. No one here has come at you with pitch forks and torches with tar and feathers and a big cross to crucify you on. People have given you legitimate advice and all you've done is deflect it. No one here is overreacting, or even being hostile. It's all you, baby.

[Knight9910]

I still don't entirely see what you mean about too many colors. I try to keep each individual gradient to a minimum of five shades. That seems to be the same amount in that SNK-style Ken sprite, or even in the tutorial thing you posted.

I do agree I need to work on the contrast and the light-sourcing (I'm actually reworking the sprite with this in mind now) but I'm not getting what you mean by less colors.

[FlyingMonkey]

"...Looking for C+C." kinda implies that your looking for C+C! If you can't take the harsh truth then perhaps you shouldn't ask for it. All the criticism you have received is totally valid, and you should try and improve your sprites instead of taking offense to the very comments you requested. What help could you receive from being told what you did right? Only through understanding your mistakes could you hope to polish your work. Please consider your attitude, and understand that if no one here wanted to help you they would not have posted on your thread.

Why not take a step in the right direction and upload an update of your work for further analysis?

EDIT: Refer to this to better understand using colors. http://www.spriters-resource.com/communi...?tid=13868

[Cobalt Blue]

creating a gradient from a saturated color isnt going to make any difference if you dont actually use contrast in the gradient's ramp as well.

wich again, means a better palette. wich again means a better use of colors(wich to an extent means less colors with more contrast). when people refers to a less convoluted amount of colors in a palette, you have to consider that a palette is created as whole, where colors are integrated and exist as a comunity rather than individual shades of a single tone. the purple you use to shade a red also works to shade a yellow. the whole key into reducing and creating more efficient, smaller color palettes is to be able to re-use colors from a single palette rather than having to resort to create new entities for each instance a shade is required.

yet working on the colors alone isnt going to fix the issues with the banding, pillowshading and erratic lightsources that are part of the shading, and are all integrated into one single element.

[x0_000]

Hmm. Well, just for your information then, here's your current palette:

Those are all the distinct colors GraphicsGale picked up. Although you do have a point that the SNK sprite does use 5 colors, I admit Ken is not the best example for color control. Ken has 3 major colors in his scheme: Red, Yellow, Skin. Yours has more: Green, Black, Gold, White, Skin and two misc. colors (blue/red). In addition, you're giving the green the same amount of shades as the black, even though the green color is limited to the hair. If you look at the Ken sprite, you'll notice that his hair is about 3 shades instead of the usual 5.

[GrooveMan.exe]

What we're saying is that you could represent the same effect just as efficiently using fewer colours. If you pulled apart that SNK Ken, you'd probably find that some o the colours are used in other places on the sprite to keep the colour limit down.

In spritework that actually shows up in games, attention is paid to the colour count so the sprite can actually be rendered properly. While it's not necessary to do so these days, it's a show of legitimate skill to keep a low colour count without it feeling like it.

[Knight9910]

Well, it's not very much yet, but how is this for a better palette?

[Cobalt Blue]

just as dull as the previous one.

[Knight9910]

About "color control" that's not really what I go for when spriting. I sprite for the same reason I draw: to create an image of a character. You seem to be saying that spriting is about some sort of challenge to yourself to see how few colors you can use. That's cool if that's what you're into, but that's not really why or how I do sprites. That's why it seems like a meaningless style issue to me. Contrast I can understand, but how many colors I use is just really not important to me.

[Cobalt Blue]

you know what, i'll make an edit of one of those characters just to ilustrate my point in a more visual way.

[Knight9910]

Yes, do that. Because at this point when I did exactly what you said using the same palette YOU provided and you tell me it's still exactly the same, it kind of leaves me little choice but to assume you're not really trying to help.

[GrooveMan.exe]

Well, it's not very much yet, but how is this for a better palette?

As a heads up
Unless a work will be entirely in monochrome or you're dealing with a typeface, never use pure greys, or worse, pure white/black. This isn't just a spriting thing either - it's a general rule in graphic design. If you want to represent something grey or black, use a dark and desaturated blue or red; It'll give a better colour depth. A 'black' represented with blue shades will give a different warmth and tone from one represented in red shades; although that's pretty obvious.

[Knight9910]

But what about you? Like, what about the sprite in your sig? That looks like pure greytones to me...and also blue and brown, but yeah.