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How do one develop games like this, from scratch?




I'm looking for a guidance...detailed ones...not some general overview thing..
hopeing to finish something together in a week or so.
*Sees Devil May Cry 5*
Dude, are you being crazy?

Take CryEngine/UE, a lot of quality 3D models, around 70 people staff, have some money on you for other assets (between 50k and 200k$) and you are good to go.
(03-08-2019, 08:07 AM)iyenal Wrote: [ -> ]*Sees Devil May Cry 5*
Dude, are you being crazy?

Take CryEngine/UE, a lot of quality 3D models, around 70 people staff, have some money on you for other assets (between 50k and 200k$) and you are good to go.

yeah well that's not very polite...calling me crazy
and that's not the step by step.

What's the first step? those 70 people staff need some order to operate.
You are not very sane...answering my question in such way yoo.

Do you know the first step?
Sorry if I looked not very polite, didn't wanted that.
It's just that if you first really wanted to do a game like this, you wouldn't even ask on a forum like now.

You don't do an AAA game by snapping your fingers.
It comes from experience, a lot of people, substantial time and money investment, knowledge on many domains... you can't have all of that yourself alone.
Realistically, the first step beyond getting a concept nailed down should be to put down the mechanics of the game in a design document.

That other question about how to essentially make a "game generator" that literally takes an asset and makes a game out of it makes me think you're either looking to offer no-effort "game" services or publish such things yourself.
This question makes you seem like more of an unlearned stargazer. Not much wrong with that, but you need to understand that building any kind of software that doesn't die a horrible death requires an understanding of the platform you're working with. You also need time investment into making the most out of what you've got.
In my opinion, the real first step should be defining the scope of the project and planning what needs doing. Make things realistic. Don't assume you'll be able to pull off weird things you haven't done before, e.g. having a procedural story.
If your timeframe is a week, what, is this a gamejam? lol
(03-08-2019, 03:02 PM)iyenal Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry if I looked not very polite, didn't wanted that.
It's just that if you first really wanted to do a game like this, you wouldn't even ask on a forum like now.

You don't do an AAA game by snapping your fingers.
It comes from experience, a lot of people, substantial time and money investment, knowledge on many domains... you can't have all of that yourself alone.

???? i don't get you. 

I definitely think anyone has some deductive level when it comes to building something.

No i don't snap my finger...it starts somewhere and i plan to do it all that's possible.

(03-08-2019, 04:04 PM)CorruptTurret Wrote: [ -> ]Realistically, the first step beyond getting a concept nailed down should be to put down the mechanics of the game in a design document.

That other question about how to essentially make a "game generator" that literally takes an asset and makes a game out of it makes me think you're either looking to offer no-effort "game" services or publish such things yourself.
This question makes you seem like more of an unlearned stargazer. Not much wrong with that, but you need to understand that building any kind of software that doesn't die a horrible death requires an understanding of the platform you're working with. You also need time investment into making the most out of what you've got.
In my opinion, the real  first step should be defining the scope of the project and planning what needs doing. Make things realistic. Don't assume you'll be able to pull off weird things you haven't done before, e.g. having a procedural story.
If your timeframe is a week, what, is this a gamejam? lol

Okay, gdd. again. Yes, i did a 2 day game jam once. work through a night with a team of 6.
It was troublesome especially since i did not have all the skill...only artistics.

But we managed. and the programmer did not do much except buying plugins.
disappointing. and they can't even explain what's programming... it's annoying.

Okay, blablabla...
how would you write a GDD for DMCs gameplay?

It's not a no effort game alright! i just want a full "walkthourgh" on the how to make it.
XD
okay let's see. alot of this stuff is visual and action...means, not that much of GDD contributes into the gameplay.

Character does action according to control... let's pretend PS control as using ABXY and then UP LEFT RIGHT DOWN
Analog +-XY left and right... and then R L 123

These controllers contribute a pattern and the characters do actions...
In maya or 3d software...all the actions are in timeline...means there is T pose, idle, walk, until some fancy slashy moves.
You could even put cinematics in it but that doesnt usually happpens since the resolution is different.

All those actions don't include targetting and direction, means the action only happens in one direction, then retargetting according to the
enemy etc.

I don't understand much about targetting yet since my experience with unity or GE (game engine) is minimum..
But basically the character find targets and the body parts direction becomes relative to it.
Relative because sometimes the movement does not, go to the direction, but against.

So, now, what's left is....the purpose of alll the assets.
In general, it is entertainment...to make people happy.
But certain moves do not make people happy...regardless of how vile or sexual it is... so, alot of things
are...cultural, and unplanned...placed according to the society.

DMC is blessed with both action variety and alot of old popular texxts like biblical references.
Question is, why use one than another? Why dante, not, uriel?
why Devil may cry? not angels cry too? or...devil money curry?

Purposes like above is more towards dialogue and story.
Now...actions. basics in DMC is travelling, movement, and dealing damages.
It is not a platformer, so movement is not its priority...especially the hand hook thing
that can only be done when ALL ENEMY in the are is defeated...
Clearly it does not emphasize freedom in platforming...it cares more about defeating the enemies around first..
stylistically....

And style...or "cool" value...is also abit cultural.
You cannot have dante doing cardboard stealth and call it cool, without the crowd saying it cool first.
Basically, it has inspiration.
And the source of cool, bleeding slashy thing.... is movie...being first than games.
or live kungfu war thing...you know, teaching violence and "self defense first". (i'm blabbering ignore as needed)

So, the value of cool of the game... is unknown until the game is released. only serving the trailer.
Players only know this game will do cool fights, only from trailer and the brand's attitude from DMC1.
Before dmc1, well, it has "genre" to inform people what it is.

So, from those info above...
the main content of the game's value...cool stuff and story...
is chosen from
1. popular texts and culture
2. pre release audience which is, the creators and fan inputs...maybe even fan arts...
3. references....other competing brands

from these 3 things...terms, like devil triggers and air combo, counters...etc
is built, and upgrades are made to make the gameplay completely customizable to each players.
and these things has value from 0 to max...in regards to speed, damage, vitality (honest i dont play these types of games much...
except activision's prototype) to make the game
1. finishable
2. dynamic (although this is broken by narrative value and cinematic...which is main character, antagonists...bla bla, making it
streamlined to story...unlike stuffs like diablo or mmo which is super dynamic)

So from those 2 variables again...the main content of the game is chosen to catter the game into a certain way...
but what? especially since the cinematic and narratives are completely independent from gameplay...annd probably
play more value than the gameplay...
For mmos or roguelikes... it means to provide a vvariety to lots of kinds of player...
those who like classes a or b or z to 100...will have and must have good time, even if their class is not popular or good enough
to pass the dungeon... this then tend to be an issue making the game, unfinishable by a certain type.
Example of a very popular case from another game...

Chunli and guile : one has a spammable kick to protect her from any attack...essentially a shield of DAMAGES
while guile's generic artillery move had a very hard spin the analog button to execute...(this is from my memory of SFEXPLUS in psx
but i think it still exist...especially less people are addressing it popularly)
So, it makes these two character...one being very easy...and the other is very hard.
Kinda like magician and knights...
or popularly...flyff's billposter that can level solo with its buff and hp stuff...while the magician and knights need to
stock a bloody many potions of many types, being unable to heal and focuses alot on offense.

This..."dynamic" is rather hard to explain... i might need to draw and record for easier reading...
but basically, DMC is while customizable...its experience is rather...streamlined. and just like
SF, judging from the playthrough i watch...
V is very hard to play, it is not smooth like dante and nero's gameplay...
Popularly also happens to the females... LUcia, trish and lady....
these three secondary character are just not tthat "polished" compared to the main star, dante.
They have really good cosmetic, compared to...what, castlevania....
kinda like X and ZERO and any megaman has a good balanced cosmetic. SOnic and friends too.

Mario...not so much.

But yeah, dmc is comestically good. but the gameplay...is really, not very cosmetic to its gameplay.
So you could say...the game is not dynamic at all.
maybe could even be played without customizing at all.
So then, why even bother with costumization? since the crazy cutscenes and cosmetics are good enough?
Making its price true.... almost like 10 disc movie...you could play the game just by watching.

The answer i can ever think of is...
because DMC is still staying true to its popular trend...being a game.
Otherwise...it will be movies only already and it can still sell.
The gameplay, is completely secondary to the narrative and cosmetic...
So now...
since we are still designing... "game"
what is the design consideration being done for the gameplay? replayability? dynamic? difficulty?
If difficulty is an issue...might as welll make it a movie...as it does not has multiple endings or anything.
replayability is almost 0. after the story ended...it does not have much value. not even multiplayer. maybe we'll see dlc, but the main
design is done and gone.
So then, leave, gameplay and dynamic.
It has multiple character... lots of customization...but these two is dead once the narrative is done.
The cool value is lower than the cinematics. the cosmetic is tied to cinematics...
and custom cinematics is not exactly...that fun. Kinda like noctis from FFXV in ramen cup head... a worthwhile meme.

So....the gameplay and dynamic...is completely...independent from the narrative and cinematics...
almost a different experience of its own.... then...what is its purpose? Almost nothing?



probably need more research... but this concludes...that dmc is more of a movie than a game.
Do you even need a GDD for it? Or does it actually uses...movie script only?
Just for curiosity... do you have 50k$ on you ready for investment?

So yeah if you're gonna do like Devil May Cry cinematics, you're gonna have to contract with a CGI studio, which cost a little.
??? What is this about cinematics and resolution? There really shouldn't be any dependency on resolution for cinematics...
In terms of combat, generic solutions like Opsive's Third Person Controller on the Asset Store are generally decent starting points unless you want to do weird / esoteric things. For instance, I snagged VisionPunk's Ultimate First Person Shooter package (before Opsive acquired it), and it was great until I realized you can't just write and drop in extended systems too easily, the way it's written. Now I have to roll my own FPS solution with ECS and stuff. I'm guessing you'll want some pretty insane state machines to handle chains and everything, so I don't know how far you'll get with frameworks people are selling. That's down to researching options, but this is all to note that third-party frameworks are an option.

Now if you don't have programming experience, I'd bet it would be easier to ask someone you've worked on projects with who can program and who doesn't suck for cooperation. I think I was wrong about what the first step should be. I have iyenal to thank for this realization. Feasibility check. Keep track of what kind of funding or assistance you have access to first, then scope things based on that. If you've got the assets to hire developers, neat. If you're not as prepared, things should change.
Nice to see you've given thought into what DMC did.
(03-09-2019, 05:33 PM)CorruptTurret Wrote: [ -> ]??? What is this about cinematics and resolution? There really shouldn't be any dependency on resolution for cinematics...
In terms of combat, generic solutions like Opsive's Third Person Controller on the Asset Store are generally decent starting points unless you want to do weird / esoteric things. For instance, I snagged VisionPunk's Ultimate First Person Shooter package (before Opsive acquired it), and it was great until I realized you can't just write and drop in extended systems too easily, the way it's written. Now I have to roll my own FPS solution with ECS and stuff. I'm guessing you'll want some pretty insane state machines to handle chains and everything, so I don't know how far you'll get with frameworks people are selling. That's down to researching options, but this is all to note that third-party frameworks are an option.

Now if you don't have programming experience, I'd bet it would be easier to ask someone you've worked on projects with who can program and who doesn't suck for cooperation. I think I was wrong about what the first step should be. I have iyenal to thank for this realization. Feasibility check. Keep track of what kind of funding or assistance you have access to first, then scope things based on that. If you've got the assets to hire developers, neat. If you're not as prepared, things should change.
Nice to see you've given thought into what DMC did.
Hmmm, i know i used unity's freeform plugins.but they somehow crashed and glitched and i don' know the solution.
English and compsci is not my native knowledge, so when they crash and says things like depedency error number 0 mumbo jumbo...
i don't know how to fix them and it wastes time.

So i am looking more in to the root of this...which isprogramming shader, physics, render audio etc...
from rawest data which is mp3, jpgs , etc... and try to bring it into a game or app directly..
And so far i cannot find this software... even visual basic is quite complex and touches directly to window's OS
building. What i need is one that allows me to "draw" the entire game architecturres and make it into real game...
alogic that works across platform.

There is illumination software creator, visual basic, clickteamfusion as an example of OS-game UI, environment creation.

But they are not enough.
I'm trying to push even further so i can get something with 0 UI maybe...
kinda like painting software or animation software...with physics and BUILD! project and export anywhere.

I don't know about state machines or chains, since those are an abstraction of the actual thing...which iss programming
tools.

Yeah, i definitely decided i have to write abit more in this thread about the subject (DmC, it applies to any other games)
In order to get the infos i need... otherwise it'll keep asking me for money without any details...