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This thread was originally going to be for a sprite comic I was working on, but became cluttered with arguments due to a misunderstanding. DioShiba had the foresight to archive the original posts, which can be seem in some of his attachments on this thread.

Further updates are going to be slow as I'm mostly working on trying to make both my writing quality better (I suffer from what I call 'The Next Generation Season 1 Syndrome', where I cannot write an introductory arc on my life,) and my spriting quality, but anything that might be added to it later may be put up as filler.
Many of the critiques I have given you in the previous thread still apply here:

Quote:if you want advice on comics and writing, and I'm saying this because I know it's easy to get ambitious right off the bat and make comics without knowing the skills and tips that most creatives need to make something of quality. That isn't going to come easily. In cases of fan works its almost often impossible to have something stand out unless they KNOW the characters they are using through extensive study and not just casually playing their game. My advice if web comics are really the path you want to then you might be better off coming up with your own ideas, developing your own characters instead of following a trend, and you can't just dive in that head first.

That bit has little to do with actual pixel art critique in of itself, but until you are certain that you've gotten the right skills to make any sort of comic regardless of what medium you're doing them in I would avoid diving into that realm personally.

Quote:My critique on the comics have very little to do with the introductions and more to do with making them in general. I'm not saying anything in particular about them besides the fact anyone can make a web comic in the way you are doing it, a lot of people do.

I'm not saying that you can't make them, but if you are serious about pursuing that consider looking at any comic besides a sprite comic and try to study how comics are made in a professional sense and do what you can learn from either web comics like Octopus Pie, or graphic novels like Scott Pilgrim. Or just pick up a Batman comic. Then muster whatever originality you can come up with then you can make your own. You can still use pixel art too to make a comic.

Also if you're taking the time to explain what is going on in these comics in walls of text that no one is going to be bothered to read, you're probably telling yourself in your head that these aren't good.

And before you try to guilt trip me into the whole "I have depression and I'm doing this for fun and I am entitled to that" thing like you did last time and started making drama about how the thread needed to be deleted (I haven't forgotten that part of it) Consider the following:

- That there are plenty of other artists out there who are suffering way more than you are in their personal lives and still take the time to consider people's opinions to push themselves to be a better artist. Regardless if they're professional or doing it for fun.

- That you can still do things like this for fun without being super defensive on your work and improve.

- These boards are for critiques, and making comics and art is like showing your ass to the world and letting people make love to it, metaphorically speaking of course. This is not a gallery.

Learn the fundamentals, make and draw more art, learn how to write and focus on the craft.
And, for the record, I DO do original things; I simply haven't posted them here because they're more slowly done, and mostly because they are either YouTube videos or collaborations with someone e

DioShiba makes solid points of advice to help you improve and you're writing them of because you don't like the fact he is being honest with you, but the points he raises are valid and helpful and if you took the time to digest them and work on them you would realise he is trying to help you. Writing them off because he is a "critic" is the worst thing you can do, as its called Constructive Criticism and is much better at helping you improve than just telling you what you want to hear.

But, i will reply to things you've said here. Importantly, you say that judging something based on only eight comics is pre-emptive, but nobody can judge something based off of hypothetical comics that don't exist. Your content is judged based on the content that exists, and that content needs work. There is nothing saying that you should stop, but that you should strive to improve and to focus on improving the skills needed to tell the story in the medium you choose to tell it in.

Second, whilst it is good to set up twists, you need to get the reader invested first, the big reveal isn't interesting to readers who aren't relating to the characters etc first, planting seeds is good, but you don't want to focus on the seeds, you want to focus on everything else and have the foreshadowing be subtle. Also, if this is prologue, it is entirely too drawn out, it should be succinct and tell the story concisely in order for the reader to get to the story. You wouldn't watch a movie if the whole movie was the content of the first five minutes, and that is how you are presenting this, which is common in sprite comics.

Now, as for claiming they are "bound to be inferior", you should not be sharing things you claim to be inferior if you cant accept that people will point out they are no good. Don't plan to make things better, do your best from the outset. You may not have fans but if you want fans you need to respect the people that will read your content and do your best from day one. Things always improve after the beginning, but that doesn't mean people don't try from the beginning. Authors don't release books with the first chapter being their first draft and expect people to be okay with it, they will make the first chapter tight and the best it can be before moving on.

Now, to be clear, i'm not criticising you to stop you from doing anything, i want you to improve, i love comics, and love sprite comics, and wish there were more, but you need to embrace criticism or you will never improve. DioShiba has only said things to help you and writing them off because you think they are "too mean" or wfor whatever reason, will never help you. Also, even if you receive negative feedback, it can still be valuable, if people say "lol this suks" without giving reasons to improve, sure, its not as helpful, but you should strive to change their opinion and make the best product you can offer.

Now, i will mirror one thing DioShiba has said. You need to learn more about the media you are trying to present your material. I say this as a striving comic artist who has been working on improving my presentation for years and is finally now getting to a point where i'm about ready to start my own thing. I stared like you and wish i had listened to criticism sooner. Comics flow in a certain way, and learning to utilise that will help you. Your frames are barely noticeable, you need to split the frames more obviously so that people can tell where the next frame goes, also, use more dynamic shapes, some frames have bigger things happening, some don't.

Next, think about your text boxes. Your text and boxes need to work well together, look nice, be easy to read, even doing this in paint is still possible, it takes more work but its worth it. It should be clear who the text box stems from, and the text should never touch the edge of the boxes.

This is the first page of Neorice's comic, Hero Oh Hero, which is, like yours, a sprite comic, but look at how his presentation differs to yours:

[Image: 2_Burk.png]

You see the difference in the quality? Also, to be clear, I'm not talking about the artwork, you could throw Metroid sprites in instead, but its about the flow of the frames and text boxes, and how it holds together and is easy on the eyes. All comics will follow this kind of flow and presentation, its why you can learn from looking at other comics. Only when you know the rules, can you learn how to break them effectively.

Now, when it comes to the use of your frames, you need to think about the content within your frames. utilise the space. Comics are a visual medium, but also need to keep a reader involved, and sprite comics need this more than most as they aren't as dynamic as regular artwork, especially if using ripped sprites. Every panel should move your story ahead, if it doesn't you either don't need it or you should combine it. Like DioShiba says also, if you need a paragraph to explain the page you aren't telling your story efficiently. 

The reader will be looking ONLY at your comic, they need that story delivered in a punchy, concise way, and it needs to be eye-catching. These are all things you can work on and once you do, your storytelling will improve. I don't doubt you have amazing stories in your head, but you need to take the time to polish your skills in presenting these ideas. 

Again, criticism should never be ignored or washed away, but appreciated, especially if it offers advice as opposed to just criticises. 

Apologies if i rambled but i didn't plan this out in advance, i just typed as i thought of it, which, admittedly, may look bad, but it follows my point, if you, the reader, take this the wrong way, i have miscommunicated my ideas in the medium it is presented. 

I hope you can take something positive away from this and learn to appreciate others comments as well.
Issac, with respect and in the nicest way I can say to your response: Grow up.

I say that not in a mean way but given how your other thread went and the way you are responding now, this is just immaturity at it's finest.

EDIT: Wow, no wonder he took it the wrong way. Forgot to put in "not"

We're simply trying to help you. We are not going to give you praise just because you think you are entitled to it. If we're giving you reasons on why it's not good and how to improve, that's constructive criticism. If I just said that this sucked and left it as that and that wouldn't be constructive at all.

You're not helping yourself by getting defensive to my points and you sure won't help your cause if you get defensive towards JewyB.

Being honest =/= being mean. Simple as that.

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you like the last time just because you don't like hearing what other people have to say. You could quit and try something else, but what good will it do you if you can't listen or read what other people have to say? You'll just frustrate yourself by making other people frustrated. And I'm certain that you don't want to make people around you miserable just because you put up a stink about it. This is true for all things in life.

If you're just going to respond in the way that you did the 3 hours ago by the time I posted this then there's really nothing more that I can say. Because I'm done humoring this, have a lovely day.
I don't expect to be 'praised.' I expect to be respected as a person. Telling me to 'grow up' is one of the highest forms of disrespect.

You claim that I'm being dismissive, yet dismiss me as 'yet another internet n00b.' I'm going to have quit these forums and delete everything I have ever posted on here, followed by reporting myself, due to the fact that, to put it simply, I cannot find an audience that will take my work for what it is, (save for the user 'iyenal,' whom I have found to be the only decent person whom pays attention to anything I make on here,) and due to the fact that this will lead to outright flame warring should I continue to even be acknowledged as having ever existed on these forums.
I'm happy to see all my advice fell on deaf ears, i really hoped you would see exactly what i was saying but you seem to have gone the opposite way. It will be really hard for you to grow as a creative with this type of attitude, but i hope eventually you realise this and come back with a more open mind.

EDIT: I would also like to point out, you ask for respect, but fail to respect the people who offer you advice and brush off what they say because you don't like to hear things other than compliments. We are trying to help you build as an artist but you seem not to be ready for that unfortunately.
(10-01-2018, 06:05 PM)JewyB Wrote: [ -> ]EDIT: I would also like to point out, you ask for respect, but fail to respect the people who offer you advice and brush off what they say because you don't like to hear things other than compliments. We are trying to help you build as an artist but you seem not to be ready for that unfortunately.

Exactly this.

Why anyone should ask for respect when they're clearly acting childish is beyond me. Thank you for sticking up for me on this one.
(10-01-2018, 06:05 PM)JewyB Wrote: [ -> ]I'm happy to see all my advice fell on deaf ears, i really hoped you would see exactly what i was saying but you seem to have gone the opposite way. It will be really hard for you to grow as a creative with this type of attitude, but i hope eventually you realise this and come back with a more open mind.

The thing is, you agree with Dio. Dio, to me comes off as an elitist, arrogant fool, and the fact that you agree with him makes it bluntly clear that this is not the place to be if you even dare to use MSPaint. My mind is only open to those who are gentle. Agression, even accidental, or siding with an agressor will turn me off to anything you have to say and discredit you to me. Additionally, Dio's 'grow up' comment was flame bait, and thus I have to leave or things will get uglier than his manner of speaking to me.

But since I'm leaving anyway, I might as well speak my mind, as the manner of speaking I use when speaking to anyone whom has treated me as nothing more than a retarded child has indeed become absolutely necessary to properly articulate my pure anger from the horrors that are these forums.

My work is not supposed to be excellent, and yet you are judging it like it is.
You and especially Dio have been nothing but assholes to me, and I refuse to take it anymore. I'm leaving, and since my language has strengthened, I do believe the staff are more than happy to help me leave a forum I am not, have not, and likely never will be satisfied with, due to the pure unpleasantness of everyone whom dares speak to me, doing nothing but calling me a child and refusing me to respect me as a fucking person. And, to answer your query, I informed that I was leaving because the aforementioned iyenal, who is the only person on this forum whom has ever been decent to me the (approximately) year I have been on it, would want to know. You act like I want attention from any of YOU, when I have made it clear that I do not think any of you respect me as a person and thus I do not wish to even remember you exist. Or in other words, you're not that special as to merit my attention.

And lastly, you both calling me a child means you do not even count as sentient beings to me anymore, merely as the horrible scourge of the internet known as 'haters.' 

My opinions of the forum do not extend to the site itself, which I continue to enjoy, but I refuse to take this on the forum, or any forum, anymore.
I actually very much appreciate your presence on here DioShiba as you seem to be an active member who seems to continually offer solid C+C and advice to as many people as possible. It's one of the reasons i jumped in here to comment, as i felt you were being completely misunderstood and wanted to offer a different explanation of what you were trying to say.

EDIT: Well, you snuck in before me, and i feel that any form of response will fall on deaf ears once again. With that said, i will add a couple of things:

Deciding that everything i had to say has no worth because i agreed with someone is an incredibly close-minded way of thinking that will not help you.
At no point did we treat you like a "retarded child", but instead offered well thought out, and civil critique, that you responded to negatively.
I would very much like to see where i have been an "asshole" to you, if you can provide examples, i will apologise and explain what i meant for you to say, but i feel you will find it difficult, as nothing i said was meant to come off that way, and again, if it did i will apologsie.
I also, again, never referred to you as a child, but i will let that one slide as you dont seem to like that.

I probably wont reply anymore if you keep this attitude up, if you do, however, calm down and consider what i have said before posting, i would love to discuss things in a civil manner, but for now, I am done here.
(10-01-2018, 06:29 PM)JewyB Wrote: [ -> ]I actually very much appreciate your presence on here DioShiba as you seem to be an active member who seems to continually offer solid C+C and advice to as many people as possible. It's one of the reasons i jumped in here to comment, as i felt you were being completely misunderstood and wanted to offer a different explanation of what you were trying to say.

Which came off as making me seem like a petulant child. Thanks a lot for that, you two both ruined the forum for me and made hurt my already lacking ability to socialize, and only caused me to be angry at someone whom I honestly thought was trying to help at first, that being Jewy, and gave me a negative opinion of him that will stick.
Well, either way JewyB I appreciate it on my end.

I'm also going to leave screenshots of what was exactly commented in this thread because I had a feeling Issac would start drama over critique again. This is mainly for the moderators and I know it's not necessary on my end, but I think it would be fair to show what was said in this thread before he deleted his comments.

[Image: pYkIaJ.png]
[Image: JW9olm.png]
[Image: 5QqcI5.png]
[Image: tXPaNt.png]
[Image: i1n9Ux.png]
I will point you to read my edited post, as i posted that before you replied. As said, I was trying to help, and am still remaining calm and civil, and if you want to discuss things in a more calm and civil way, i am open to it.

I am even, strangely enough for someone you consider an "asshole", willing to take this discussion to pm with you, hopefully iron out misunderstandings and possibly help you with advice on anything you would need in future, to avoid publicly showing until you are happy, but again, in a calm and civil manner.

I would like for you to stick around as i like this place having more members, i just feel you need to be more open to criticism.

As said in my edit though, this will be my last post if you do not wish to discuss in more civil manner.
This forum is definitely not for you if you continue to act like this.

You're treating legitimate critique very immaturely by demonizing those providing it and making excuses for not considering the valid advice you're getting. It's certainly immature whether you accept it or not. We've all been in your position at one point or another and adversity makes us better, so relax and look at things objectively and not so emotionally. Or leave, of course, that's also a decent option, but a waste of opportunity at that.
You're right, I did need to calm down. From what I get, it was a misunderstanding that caused this, which has been mostly cleared up.


An edit to the hatches from the original Metroid, to make them resemble the hatches from Metroid: Samus Returns. Not really any respect to palette limitations, but I made these inbetween sessions of playing Samus Returns whilst powering through it. I might use these later, but there's a possibility that I won't because there currently isn't an in-story reason for Zed V to have ancient Chozo hatches on it. The darker charge hatch assumes a palette that includes black rather than black being transparent, and thus makes the door have only those three colors.
It's good for a start. But it feels flat.

I wonder what would happen in the case that you tried utilizing the colors being used as a light source and add a color that would help give it some ambience. Since you're not going by any sort of palette restrictions you might be able to get away with that little extra detail.

I would also be curious to see what might change if you put anti aliasing in some spots of the door itself. Consider experimenting with this a bit further.
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