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Even though I am already working on an RPG with a friend of mine, I decided to work on an additional game just for fun. I may only be good enough to program a simple button in Flash, but I am willing to do almost all the visual assets and concepts.

I actually have two ideas for how this game should go, but I would only like to choose one for simplicity sake. I don't mind working on both, but which one should I at least invest more time into?

This is a rough mockup for a click and point adventure game. A lot of the inspiration comes from the ones created by Lucas Arts adventure games. This one will feature more than one playable character and it will work like how Day of the Tentacle does. Also, since I'm taking inspiration from Lucas Arts for this, I don't want any of my characters to die or get caught in a puzzle that's unsolvable because you missed the trinket you only have one shot to collect.

As for this one, this is my idea for a platform game. I'm going to use elements from multiple slidescrolling for this one, but my base inspriation comes from Castle of Illusion Starring Mickey Mouse and Kirby and the Amazing Mirror.

For the visual style, I want to go for how Wario Land: Shake it pulls it off. That means I'm going to have to paint beautiful backgrounds and animate characters as if they appeared in a fluidly animated cartoon. Since I like doing both of these, this part should be no trouble at all.

As for the programming, that's the hardest part. I would like it if you guys were to help me with this part if you don't mind. I don't need for it to be programmed right away, but I would like work to begin the moment I flesh out this game a lot more. Luckily, I found a couple of engines that would work for each concept I have in mind.

Before you ask, I would prefer if this game was programmed in Flash. That way, anyone is able to play it regardless if they use a PC or a Mac (like I do). Of course, I am flexible with whatever programming language you guys would like to use as long as I am able to play the game on my own OS without any problems.

What do you think?
I'm not the best artist, but I'll help if you want.
From a programming perspective, the platformer might be more straightforward, as the mechanics are pretty much consistent throughout the game. On the other hand, depending on the complexity of the game you'd have to be able to add a lot of different mechanics to the base. In a point-and-click the movement and collision wouldn't be incredibly difficult (pathfinding is a common engine mechanic and more or less solves the problem) and the puzzles would be more or less a bunch of different minigames (not needing to be intertwined with the base mechanics).

It really depends on what you want to do. These two gaming styles are pretty drastically different and which you choose depends on your story and the experience you intend to give the player. If the story is very important and detailed, a point-and-click allows the player to be more involved and make choices. If you've got a simple plot (e.g. save the princess) and you just want to give the player a skill challenge, then a platformer is the obvious way to go.
If it doesn't matter, then you can of course choose whichever, but it's important to understand that the gameplay lays down the foundation for more or less the entire structure of the game, and the player's experience.

I'm currently working on a big project (with multiple coders) but I could consider giving this a shot. If I would I'd want to do the point-and-click adventure, and I think it would be more interesting and possibly easier. I would like more details on exactly how big the game would be, the sorts of puzzles, cutscenes (or lack thereof) and so on. If it isn't too great a task I might be eble to do the programming. It will have to wait a while though, at current I'm not in a very stable situation and won't have constant computer access and/or internet connection for a while.
With that kind of logic, Puggsoy, I'm going to focus on the click and point adventure game idea. I tell stories better than designing level layouts, so this seems like a natural choice for me. Also, due to my interest in most adventure games and how the Humungous Entertainment games are a big part of my childhood, I have enough inspiration to make a good one. Also, I really like how you offered to help me program it, my friend, but let's see if this would be the kind of project that would interest you before we make any serious commitments.

(07-19-2014, 08:34 PM)psychospacecow Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not the best artist, but I'll help if you want.

I'm willing to have more people work on this project, so if you could tell me about the kind of talents you're good at, I'll see what I can have you do for this project. Sounds good?

Anyway, to start this game out, we need to come up with a scenario that most of us could agree upon and decide a few key elements. I already have a scenario in mind, but I'm not sure if you guys are going to like it.

Basically, there is a surge of popularity in the Mario & Luigi sprite style and this bothers E-Man. He must preform a series of tasks to make at least another style of sprites more popular to prematurely end the M&L craze. Of course, what might happen if he encounters a deal with the devil on the way?

Can I role with that, or do I need to think it over some more?

Also, for the size of the game, I am thinking that it should be at least as large as the Curse of Monkey Island. As for cutscenes, I think that they should only show up if this game is going to have voice acting. Since I'm planning on having the game programmed in Flash, I was wondering if there are any limitations I need to know about. That way, I could keep track of how much I could throw in before I hit certain boundaries. Worse case scenario is that I divide the game up in episodes, like how Taletell does it with their games.

Got any other ideas and questions to share before I move on?
So, demonic intervention point and click adventure game about spriting? Seems we could get some absurd humor out of that.
What do you think in regards to avenues the game could go?

Also, as for what I am, I've got some experience with Photoshop. 3 years, enough to be 1 question off from getting an official Adobe certified license unfortunately, but I digress.

I've done a lot of different things for a lot of different projects, though programming isn't one of them.

^some ideas I started that fell apart due to lack of input and my inability to program.

V some projects I've helped with that are probably dead now...
(07-20-2014, 11:28 AM)E-Man Wrote: [ -> ]Since I'm planning on having the game programmed in Flash, I was wondering if there are any limitations I need to know about. That way, I could keep track of how much I could throw in before I hit certain boundaries. Worse case scenario is that I divide the game up in episodes, like how Taletell does it with their games.

I haven't played Monkey Island but judging from the amount I've heard about it I would assume it'd have a good number of hours of gameplay (at least 5). Flash isn't the best platform for big games, as more likely than not you're going to play it in a web browser, and waiting for it to load while it chomps on your bandwidth isn't nice. Episodes might be a good idea if it's to be played in a web browser.

However, if I were to program this I would do it in Haxe. This is very similar to Flash's ActionScript 3.0, but in addition to Flash it can also target desktop (Windows, Mac and Linux), which is a much better option for a largeish point-and-click adventure. It can also target other platforms (Android and iOS, Ouya, and I think more desktop stuff like Python and Java) but I doubt you'll want it beyond Flash and native desktop.

Other than that I can't think of many limitations. Targeting Flash the only usable audio formats are WAV and MP3, for others it'd be WAV and OGG. Also I can't do 3D stuff but I don't expect this would need that anyway.

If you could get some mockup screens and puzzle designs up I can see if this is out of my scope or not.
(07-21-2014, 05:05 PM)psychospacecow Wrote: [ -> ]So, demonic intervention point and click adventure game about spriting? Seems we could get some absurd humor out of that.
What do you think in regards to avenues the game could go?

When you put it that way, that idea sounds extremely good on paper! I'll go for it in that case! Of course, I am wondering what you mean by "avenues" in that context, though. Care to explain, friend?

(07-21-2014, 05:05 PM)psychospacecow Wrote: [ -> ]Also, as for what I am, I've got some experience with Photoshop. 3 years, enough to be 1 question off from getting an official Adobe certified license unfortunately, but I digress.

I've done a lot of different things for a lot of different projects, though programming isn't one of them.

^some ideas I started that fell apart due to lack of input and my inability to program.

V some projects I've helped with that are probably dead now...

Those are some nice drawings, but not the kind of ones I would use throughout the game. I could have you help out if I ever make a doodle land or possibly have you become a tween animator, though.

Maybe you could help me out if this game has voice acting or help me write the script?

Anyway, Puggsoy, you raise a good point about not using Flash. I don't actually know how big this game is going to get (let alone one with voice acting), so programming it in Haxe sounds like a safe bet. Also, since you implied that it works on both Mac and PC, this works out even better for me! As for 3D stuff, don't worry about that. The game is going to be like older click and point adventure games, so everything has 2D graphics instead. Besides, creating CGI models is a little bit troublesome for me.

Regarding mockups, I'll create those gradually as the story progresses. You see, for this kind of game, I want to mostly focus on developing the script first, so I can know which areas to add and which puzzles I can come up with.Since I didn't develop too much of the story yet, all I have are the rough concepts of the world map (I'll add more areas later) and the HUD.



Here's the story so far. I took the inspiration from the stories found in the Rareware instruction booklets and the DK Vine website. I'll hammer out the first part of the script later.

Is it any good, or did it leave a bad taste in your mouth?

Also, I would like to go over a handful of other things before I wrap this up.

- E-Man has an item called the Star Rod in his inventory. While it is a powerful magic item, E-Man doesn't want to use its powers unless he really has to in order to avoid god-modding. While it could be used for a handful of puzzles, E-Man would have to solve the rest of the puzzles with other solutions. In other words, the Star Rod would work like how Manny's scythe works in Grim Fandango.

- I plan on not having any situations where E-Man dies or badly messes up to the point where there is a puzzle he cannot solve. I might have alternate solutions to puzzles and overall different puzzles for E-Man to solve in case he blew his chance on one, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Also, I'm thinking about adding multiple endings to this game, but should I stick with only one for simplicity reasons?

- I would like to have more than one character to play as. Obviously, E-Man is playable, but I think I would like to have one or two additional characters to play as. Starsock is my first choice, but maybe you could think of others I could choose?

- Regarding characters that appeared in other games (such as Doopliss), I was wondering if I could role with that. If I can throw a few in (and maybe make one of them playable), that would be good. Otherwise, I'll just stick with members who are part of this site.

- In several Lucas Arts adventure games, you could make the character walk around on the screen and you use a few buttons to interact with the environment. For Humungous Entertainment games, the character is usually stuck in one place and if you click on an object, you automatically interact with it in the manner the game wants you to. Which style should I go for?
Seems like an awfully wordy exposition without including any gameplay, though I've never really played a point and click so I don't know if that's normal or not.

I was referring to different solutions and ending when I was talking about "avenues", like Final Fantasy/Terraria sprites (since Terraria kind of stole that), or megaman sprites, etc. with things relating to the end result being in the middle.
The thing about gameplay in a click and point adventure game is that it's literally the same for each one. Despite games done by Humungous having a simpler interface compared to other adventure games and games like Grim Fandango and Escape from Monkey Island having a slightly different feel overall, most click and point adventure games have no real differences with their core mechanics. In other words, it's just the same game with a different skin and altered puzzles.

Going by how standard adventure games work, you could expect these mechanics from this game.

- The playable character is able to take objects and use them in the world to either progress through the game or cause an amusing reaction.

- When interacting with NPCs, a dialog tree is used to make choices on what to say in order to get different reactions and information.

- At least three different buttons are used when dealing with a person or object. A speak button, an interaction button, and an examine button. All of these should be self-explanatory.

- Sometimes, the need for combining items pops up. They would create new items that would be used in other puzzles.

If you want to see a lot of these mechanics in action, try watching this video. It's the gameplay from the Curse of Monkey Island.

I'm sorry that I didn't say a whole lot about gameplay before, but since games like these are heavily story-driven, a lot of the preproduction revolves around refining the plot first.
This feels like E-Man: The Game and a personal vendetta written out into a nice, large couple of paragraphs (oh and I was mentioned, nice). From what I got from it:
  • E-Man wakes up, draws a picture of Gors
  • Goes to deliver his gift personally, gets housemaid PK
  • Visits the castle to talk to Gors to give him the gift of Gors
  • Gors announces a new project, and return of older members
  • Is SO MAD he just goes home
  • Goes Parappa on 'em, vowing to wow 'em with His New Style

  • And...apparently this becomes a point-and-click adventure?

Not to mention you're painting him to be a Mary Sue. "There won't be any points where E-Man dies or is stumped"
...why would I want to play this?

I'd make it a little less personal and more fantasy if anything - sort of like Super Arisa World. Gors has no vendetta against Vipershark - Vipershark just makes a good, brainy, perverted antagonist.

here let me write some fanfiction here starting off from the announcement:
  • Gors announces a new project: "retro" Megaman-style sprite editing project with open submissions (allowing for such greats such as Klonoa and Starfox edits)
  • ...and the revival of Kevin Triebel
  • E-Man and a few other users declare there are far better spriting projects that could be done, such as the Pokemon TCG
  • Within seconds, those users are warned and muted by Gors

  • This is atypical behavior of Gors. How can E-Man prove there are better spriting projects that spur more creativity?
  • E-Man must band together with the silenced members by sending PMs and find a way to get the message to Gors, even if they have to ban Dazz to do it
Okay, I get what you're saying, Kosheh. I think I would like to explain a few things if you don't mind.

For the whole part about him being a "Mary Sue," it's nothing like that at all. "There won't be any points where E-Man dies or is stumped" doesn't just apply to him but to all possible playable characters in the game because that is the kind of game I am aiming for here. You see, I'm aiming for making it like a Lucas Arts adventure game, which means there are no points where you can badly mess up in them game to where it's unbeatable. That's why we have King's Quest.

Also, before you ask, the two users I indirectly mentioned in my story are not the main antagonists. They're not friendly and E-Man sees them as his rivals, but other than somehow having the event end anyway, nothing more would come from it. The actual problem comes from when E-Man later unintentionally makes a deal with a demon of sorts out of desperation and how he has to reverse it before the entire Resource is messed up.

If you want me to try another story idea besides that, I may as well make it a platforming game instead. Otherwise, maybe making a game like this at all is a bad idea and I should drop it.
I think what Kosheh meant is that in your explanation, you actually included existing personal stuff that probably shouldn't be mentioned, for instance:

Quote:While E-Man is a kind and overall helpful boy who almost always means well, some people cannot help but get irritated by him. Sometimes it's his overall cheerfulness that almost feels fake and forced at times, while other times it could be how he could be clueless about a few things in life. Also, there could be times that E-Man unintentionally say something that rubs people the wrong way, and this has caused E-Man a lot of grief more than once in his life.

It might just be me, but that passage isn't good for this sort of game. If this were a game that was trying to convey some deep, thoughtful message and evoke emotions within the player (and I actually support these sort of games) then maybe it would be OK, but I can tell this game isn't trying to do that. This game is delivering a fictional adventure in an interactive manner, so inserting personal (and somewhat uncomfortable) snippets of your experiences isn't exactly fitting.

Another thing is that it seems to have been written more like a novel or short story, rather than a video game story. There are a good number of bits that you've written that are a bit over-descriptive, and are honestly just unnecessary. You've given detailed descriptions of the refs of PK, Dazz, and Gors, while almost everybody who will read this already knows what they look like, and in-game you'll see them.
There are also some parts of the story that I can't see happening in a point-and-click perspective. For example:

Quote:E-Man didn't catch that PK was going to tell him about the interesting circumstances of his bet and he was already moving to give Gors his gift before the event started. Before PK went back inside to sort Gors' manga collection (which is actually him just reading as many issues as he can), he let out the kind of sigh a parent gives when their child is acting hyper, yet still lovable.

This would, at best, be somehow portrayed as a cutscene with narration. However I don't see this happening, and being completely honest it makes it a bit of a drag to read. As I understand this, it's supposed to give us an idea of the general story and setting, and what the whole thing's about. 8 paragraphs into this, very little has actually happened, and that's what a point-and-click game is: stuff happening, story progressing, the player exercising their mind.

As you said, you took inspiration from the Rareware instruction booklets, but those would usually be read by people playing the game, and often just as elaboration or "extra content" after they've already played it. For a development story outline, it's much too in-depth and descriptive, and not very practical in terms of giving people who might help/work on the game the most important points.

Don't take any of this the wrong way, your story isn't necessarily bad and I still think the game is a great idea. I'm just giving feedback that will hopefully help refine and improve the story. I need to be able to visualise this in game form, and at the moment I can't.
Hm, I see what you mean. I was mostly concerned that the story idea wasn't going to cut it because it would land me in a lot of trouble more than anything else.

Anyway, like you guessed, the lengthy story description was to give the general idea of the story. A lot of the more lengthy parts (such as the blood in the mouth and the character descriptions) won't be in the actual game. Instead, this is the kind of script format I would use when planning out my game.

I might try to retool the overall idea a little bit more, but if worse comes to worse, I'm willing to call off the project.
I'm not sure why I got some more feedback on this, but I'll go ahead and start writing the overall script. It should provide a good walkthrough on what to do for this game. What do you think of it?

E-Man, it's fine that you have started planning the story, but I think you should start by planning gameplay and testing out gameplay concepts. You have to develop a game with the mindset that you're making a game, not a movie or book, and therefore gameplay should be thought up first.

I'm not trying to discourage you from planning the story, it's just that many modern games focus on story first and gameplay second, and suffer because of it.
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