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Mother 3 is regarded as having one of the best stories in video games and yet I can't help but be annoyed by a few things.

The whole concept of the Egg that hold everyone's memories of old is incredibly stupid. It's supposed to prevent people from doing what they did to the world before but... If people don't remember the mistakes they have done in the past then they are very likely to do it again! We learn from our history and know not to make the same mistakes.

Not to mention this utopia created years ago on the dragon while everyone STILL had their memories. They were doing the right thing even when they had all their old memories. Why did they need to replace all their memories then?

On top of that the whole anticonsumerism moral and living without technology seemed hypocritical seeing how this was being told on a video game. That like a TV show telling you TV is bad. The whole humanity dooming itself with TV seems ham fisted. What's really strange is that the original Mother games seem to celebrate United States culture and lifestyle while this game seems to demonize it. What happened to the creator of this series to make him have such a change of heart?

What do you guys think?

carnivorous dinosaurs eating meat is apparently unusual behavior

It was never a celebration of American culture, it was a parody of how ridiculous we all are.

No actually I always felt otherwise. Eagleland was not a satire but a tribute.

(12-16-2012, 12:51 AM)Kriven Wrote: [ -> ]It was never a celebration of American culture, it was a parody of how ridiculous we all are.

Exactly.

Man, Eagleland is so over the top, do you really believe that wasn't a satire? Wild dogs, a gang of troublemakers, hippies that attack you, having to pay Runaway Five's debt all the time, Pokey and Monotoly himself. I wouldn't say it's a heavy jab, but calling it a tribute is too much.

Now to Mother 3:

How is telling a story through a modern and popular medium hypocritical? If you want your story to be seen, is there really anything wrong with that? Also it was less anti-consumerism and more anti-alienating. It was pro-nature before anything else, even. That's the concept shown on the freaking logo to begin with. It was defending the view of a simpler life, as opposed to a busy city one.

Now, the Egg, did you even read Leder's story? Basically, it's not about not learning with the past mistakes, it's about starting anew. They erased their memories and planned out new roles for them so they could live a simpler life and not commit past mistakes. But of course, they were cautious, that's why the Egg exists, so if it's needed, they get their memories back. Also, regarding Leder, he's never lost his memory, he basically keeps watch on the people and his "bell" is a warning that is sound off when the villagers start to go back to their old self. There were also the Magypsies, which were locals, I believe.

You say on the title that the story is overrated, but you actually only give points that annoy you/you didn't understand, so I don't get it.

(12-16-2012, 12:59 AM)Koopaul Wrote: [ -> ]Eagleland was not a satire but a tribute.

I disagree, its more of a satire than anything else. It seems your major beef with Mother 3 is that you feel like it is somehow attacking American culture. I don't see how the story is overrated though. I'll admit I never played the game, I've watched and read a lot about it though and I thought it was quite compelling.

Nah my biggest gripe is the Egg thing. I hate the idea of keeping people ignorant will protect them. Ignorance will cause great disasters, not prevent them.

It's like a wise baboon once said to a lion: "The past can hurt. But the way I see it, you can either run from it... or learn from it."

As for the American culture thing, I still believe the guy likes it. There are just so many tributes in the first two Mother games to American culture it's unbelievable. The Runaway Five was based on the Blues Brothers. Mr. T is in the game too. I could go on but a guy who puts so many references in a game must actually loves it.

You see I think you are getting confused.

Let's look at the movie Young Frankenstein. The movie is a parody comedy of the original Fankenstein. However Mel Brooks made the movie because of how much he respects and loves the original movie. Not because he wants to show us how ridiculous the original was.

So when Itoi pokes fun out of American things, it is done out of love.

He calls himself a baboon. Who am I to say he's wrong.

It's a Mother game - it's one of those things that isn't meant to be taken seriously but is also incredibly deep at the same time.

The whole egg thing is well - let's face it towards the end things just get damn weird. It probably makes perfect sense to the Japanese so I'm going to say it's message is something that we're going to see as something very different.

However the story in general, Flint going mad, having to take down your own brother (this isn't a spoiler any more and if it is why are you in a Mother 3 topic?), Porky and everything else and all that is gold. So yes maybe the final 'message' is rather bizarre but well, it would be a mistake to let that remove from the rest of the game.

It's like in Ninja Gaiden. You've been doing all these hard jumps, dying a lot through falling into fire and then at the end he turns into a whirlwind and flies away. It's dumb, makes you wonder why the hell he couldn't do it earlier - but it doesn't make th game before it any worse.

the noah's ark story in conjunction to our present is comparable to mother 3's story, and the story of corruption, needless fighting, and death are all things we can relate to. it creates a realistic scenario in a fictional universe; this is why its such a good story to so many.

You're confusing a good message/ good moral with a good story. Of course it had a great message to tell us, but the way they told it was poor.

They told it in a confusing questionable way. Logically speaking.

I prefer the story over the message, the message is too absolute for my own liking.
Though even if we take it that Mother 3's story isn't amazing (which I disagree on), for a video-game it's still far above the norm.

I mean games with a story even worth mentioning are few and far between so one which at least gives something to talk about and is entertaining/engaging while you're playing the game is something pretty unheard of in it's own right. The stories of each character are also enjoyable. You can take out the whole big story of needles and dragons and the characters with their own little stories and emotions are enough to make it note worthy.

I think it falls into the same category as Braid. You either think it's a load of bull, good but over praised and that the people behind it get far more credit then they deserve, or you swallow down everything as gold and any fault can easily be pushed away over the grandness of the big picture.

With Braid I think he's a bit up his own arse. Mother 3 is charming enough that any criticism is simply buried under smiling dinosaurs, funky music and it's simplistic but emotion filled sprites.

Honestly, I don't know. I never really fully played Mother 3 to understand the full story and to be honest, I stopped caring about it by the time the fan translation was finished.

I can say however it's still a Mother/Earthbound game. It's not necessarily meant to be taken seriously at times but at other times it can be dreadfully serious. I mean shit look at some of the things in Mother 2/Earthbound, by the time it goes halfway into the game it gets pretty serious. I do recall that Mother 3 had a lot of themes relating to nature vs. industrialization, and had a lot of deep moments. So I can at least respect why people find it to be good.

On the other hand though, that isn't to say that it's completely likable. One of the things that did irk me about Mother 3 was that it took an almost complete change in direction with the tone. But who am I to say that it's wrong to have some change in a series? Personally I think a lot of people look way too deeply into these things.

You know, Shigesato Itoi is a writer before a Game Designer. He's also a bunch of other things, the man's amazing, but that's another story. Since the first "Mother" days, he always strived for a compelling story, that does not lose humor or charm. A story that people can look to, relate and think about it themselves. The ending in every Mother game takes a turn to the weird, that's because it reaches it's climax and Itoi starts to show what he's really trying to do. Again, you sound like you didn't read -any- of Leder's dialogue. Basically everything is explained at that point. The freaking scene even has it's own music composed just for it. Of course you're supposed to be confused, as the villagers know nothing, you don't either. That's the charm of being immersed in the game's history.

If you, again, read Leder's story, you would see that they could have just erased their past, but they choose to have the Egg of Light conceal all their memories, instead of just going away with them. You don't realize that they planned to do this, to stay ignorant, because they learned with their past. You learn with the past, but you don't cling to it. Otherwise you'll be remorseful forever by past actions, at one point you have to let it go. That's one of the many messages Mother 3 tries to portray, and it does in such a natural way.

Now, to the Eagleland thing. The way you say it, it seems like Itoi is some American culture maniac, which is a way to completely miss the point. Of course he does enjoy American culture, otherwise it wouldn't be there in such a lighthearted manner. But, calling it a celebration is too much. That makes Itoi sound like some guy who just loves american culture and want to bring it to his own country, praising it as the best. Itoi always make sure to put japanese culture and things in his games, even if they're based on a satire version of America. And really, in general, he likes a lot of things, not every place in Earthbound is on Eagleland (I just discovered this yesterday). Foggyland, where Winters and Summers are, is a version of Europe (if Stonehenge wasn't a big clue enough). Chommo, where Dalaam and Scarab are, is a version of Asia/Africa (taking into account that Deep Darkness is part of it too). If you look at the first Mother's characters favorite things, aside from Lloyd, they always have a japanese thing listed, Ninten having the most (Giants game ticket and a baseball signed by some japanese player. Even if it's an american game, baseball is like, Japan's national sport). I agree that he does all the fun out of love, but it's certainly not to enforce (or suggest) that way of life on the players, that's for sure.