Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

Runouw · 12-06-2010 08:48 AM

I would say the goal isn't to find the most powerful combo (Though some would be more powerful than others), but it should be more like finding the best looking combo, because you are probably going to get a KO anyway with a weak combo...

And no, it's not a "X+XD+O+Forward+Strong+Loopdeeloop+XXX+Tap" type combo, maybe the word combo is throwing you off. You would have complete control over your character unlike other fighting games. Don't forget this form gives you faster running and jumping too! (Use it for chasing your opponent after a powerful hit so you can chase them and hit them another time, etc)

When you collect it, it's supposed to give you that feeling that you are all powerful and can do anything - for a short period of time.

Dils · 12-06-2010 08:52 AM

(12-06-2010 08:48 AM)Runouw Wrote: I would say the goal isn't to find the most powerful combo (Though some would be more powerful than others), but it should be more like finding the best looking combo, because you are probably going to get a KO anyway with a weak combo...

And no, it's not a "X+XD+O+Forward+Strong+Loopdeeloop+XXX+Tap" type combo, maybe the word combo is throwing you off. You would have complete control over your character unlike other fighting games. Don't forget this form gives you faster running and jumping too! (Use it for chasing your opponent after a powerful hit so you can chase them and hit them another time, etc)

When you collect it, it's supposed to give you that feeling that you are all powerful and can do anything - for a short period of time.

The reason I'm hesitant about this combo thing is that nothing seems to stop the player from just ending the match with a Smash Attack T_T

Runouw · (12-06-2010)

Wasn't the final smash in Brawl the same way? People kept complaining about final smashes being way too overpowered before brawl came out and now what?
Besides, if the combos are too powerful in the game we can easily make them weaker. I can tweak it's strength until everyone is happy.

Dils · 12-06-2010 09:40 AM

(12-06-2010 09:20 AM)Runouw Wrote: Wasn't the final smash in Brawl the same way? People kept complaining about final smashes being way too overpowered before brawl came out and now what?
Besides, if the combos are too powerful in the game we can easily make them weaker. I can tweak it's strength until everyone is happy.

I'd say you could minimize knockback so the player has the chance to do some damage before knocking anyone out.

Kitsu · 12-06-2010 09:40 AM

I personally see no problem with it. I understand what Koopaul means when he mentioned the whole reliance on sudden thinking and such, but if you think about it, "combos" already play a bit of a role in smash (mostly Melee), with the pro players carrying out those impressive combos. They usually aren't too powerful and don't last very long, but they do already exist. This is more just an extension of that system for those players who do like playing that way. Besides, it's not like using combos would change that whole "Oh shit, a bob-omb" dynamic.

Negative-Zer0 · (12-06-2010)

Smash bros. is the most unpredictable game ever. Random items, random deaths, shit is frantic.

The combo extender thing is a great idea that shouldn't be tossed away because some people were afraid of the "simplicity of smash" being ruined. This idea is gold and i think that we should at least give it a try before tossing it aside.

Raid · 12-06-2010 09:08 PM

You all forgot that SSB already have a character who use this kind of atacks, though it's not so much alike the hackers on youtube, the wario men. His mechanics are similar to the combos hacks, but more balanced and without that "hit or nothing" thing you were talking. There's no time to get the right place neither, but the results are similar. I didn't heard anyone complaining about him being a kick machine gun and flying with slaps. And it's time limited, as the combo some of you want. It means that the entirely game isn't a insane murder, only if someone with wario take the smash.

What I say doesn't means that I agree with this new feature. For me, wathever supadupa combos or the same and good brawl, just stated something that no one said before.

~~tsr moderation staff~~ · (12-07-2010)

honestly, i agree that its a cool mechanic, but i would rather see an entire game built around it than just have it shoehorned into something that it really doesn't fit with and is really kind of nothing like the rest of the game. imo we should just change up a bunch of the final smashes to make them more interesting and unique.

Negative-Zer0 · 12-07-2010 07:02 AM

(12-07-2010 06:02 AM)[fish in space] Wrote: honestly, i agree that its a cool mechanic, but i would rather see an entire game built around it than just have it shoehorned into something that it really doesn't fit with and is really kind of nothing like the rest of the game. imo we should just change up a bunch of the final smashes to make them more interesting and unique.

I'm so serious, i can't see why people are so resistant to even try it. It's mostly theory based upon people who think that "it wouldn't feel right" This mechanic sounds great and fresh to smash. I mean, no one has really even come up with a good argument and other even rationalized it as it turning in to street fighter, which is a desperate excuse honestly.

If ANYONE can come up with ONE problem, ONE problem that should prevent this system from being in the game. Other than the opinionated " It doesn't feel right"

Now i don't want teleporting and shit in the game, just like a combo enhancer, that lasts like 7 seconds. Which REQUIRES you to know what you are doing in order to make the most damaging combo possible before it ends.

*Other suggestions*
Can we make Falco's reflector like it was in melee? I don't like clones but they downright made it worse.

Kitsu · (12-07-2010)

Like Runouw said, just let him try it first and we can tweak it. And if, for some reason, it just doesn't work, then he can... take it out again...

...

Runouw · 12-07-2010 07:56 PM

Well, I guess it is pretty easy to implement. No new graphics are required for this to work. (To make it stand out I can make the character glow or have an after-image)
I guess look forward to it in the next demo. (I will be working on releasing the next version over the Christmas break)

Dils · 12-07-2010 09:06 PM

(12-07-2010 07:56 PM)Runouw Wrote: Well, I guess it is pretty easy to implement. No new graphics are required for this to work. (To make it stand out I can make the character glow or have an after-image)
I guess look forward to it in the next demo. (I will be working on releasing the next version over the Christmas break)

Before or after Christmas? Shy

AuraPigOnStilts · 12-07-2010 09:44 PM

(12-07-2010 07:56 PM)Runouw Wrote: Well, I guess it is pretty easy to implement. No new graphics are required for this to work. (To make it stand out I can make the character glow or have an after-image)
I guess look forward to it in the next demo. (I will be working on releasing the next version over the Christmas break)

Maybe some kind of Onion skin effect to make it look faster and more dramatic

Negative-Zer0 · 12-07-2010 11:02 PM

(12-07-2010 09:44 PM)Deleted Sarcasm Wrote:
(12-07-2010 07:56 PM)Runouw Wrote: Well, I guess it is pretty easy to implement. No new graphics are required for this to work. (To make it stand out I can make the character glow or have an after-image)
I guess look forward to it in the next demo. (I will be working on releasing the next version over the Christmas break)

Maybe some kind of Onion skin effect to make it look faster and more dramatic

I cast my vote for blue after image.

**Kosheh** · 12-08-2010 01:05 AM

Honestly, the more I watch the hack combo vids, the more sense this idea makes. However, there are a few issues, and I know I'm a little late and you've already agreed on it, Runouw, but:

(12-06-2010 08:48 AM)Runouw Wrote: I would say the goal isn't to find the most powerful combo (Though some would be more powerful than others), but it should be more like finding the best looking combo, because you are probably going to get a KO anyway with a weak combo...

And no, it's not a "X+XD+O+Forward+Strong+Loopdeeloop+XXX+Tap" type combo, maybe the word combo is throwing you off. You would have complete control over your character unlike other fighting games. Don't forget this form gives you faster running and jumping too! (Use it for chasing your opponent after a powerful hit so you can chase them and hit them another time, etc)

When you collect it, it's supposed to give you that feeling that you are all powerful and can do anything - for a short period of time.

It's...still the same thing, if it's what I think it is it's going to be extremely awkward to pull off. as sweet as freestyle combos sound, there's simply too many variables and weird aspects of Smash for this type of mechanic to work right. Maybe it's because hurtboxes will be different in our games as opposed to the ones in Brawl, I don't know. Chances are most of us (us? us?) are going to start off with a decent combo but then knockback speed/power is going to throw us off. Sure - yeah, you could keep knockback at one static percentage, but there's no fun in that and furthermore, when does the combo finish?

If you guys want to try it and implement it into an upcoming demo, I'm not going to stop you, but if you want my opinion, uh...here, it's not in any particular order or combination:

1) Make it a completely separate item from Final Smashes. It's way too different from the Final Smash to be...well, compared to it

2) I wish, but I don't think wishing will work - that knockback power/speed, whatever variables needed could be restrained to a particular area of the map. By that I mean if it's an item used ingame, that it have a large radius, similar to Luigi's Negative Zone [THE OWN ZONE???]
Then, the player can combo the opponent to their heart's content and when the combo's done/they're at the limits of the combo, once the opponent is at the edge of THE OWN ZONE the regular physics of Smash come into play again. tl;dr they get KO'ed

hell i'd be down if you made it purely because it's an item called THE OWN ZONE. it's so campy it just works

3) If you aren't going with THE OWN ZONE, you'll still have knockback be wonky as butt and the player won't always be able to immediately cancel out of their attacks all the time, so for those times where it's hard to do so, maybe a "chase" mechanic could prove useful (think like Sonic Battle, where you chase the opponent in midair so you can slam them into the ground) to keep combos going a little longer.

You have to keep in mind that as cool as the hack combos look, there are certain conditions available in these videos that don't exist in an actual match, i.e. the fact these are zero-to-death combos and you're practicing on a stationary character. A real opponent would most likely be on the edge of the stage, at a higher damage percentage and constantly trying to tech out of your combo. Moreover, you may also have multiple opponents trying to attack you during your OWN ZONE combo...which pretty much destroys the point of the combo unless you're also somehow invulnerable to stun damage your combo too.

(12-06-2010 09:08 PM)Raid Wrote: You all forgot that SSB already have a character who use this kind of atacks, though it's not so much alike the hackers on youtube, the wario men. His mechanics are similar to the combos hacks, but more balanced and without that "hit or nothing" thing you were talking. There's no time to get the right place neither, but the results are similar. I didn't heard anyone complaining about him being a kick machine gun and flying with slaps. And it's time limited, as the combo some of you want. It means that the entirely game isn't a insane murder, only if someone with wario take the smash.

What I say doesn't means that I agree with this new feature. For me, wathever supadupa combos or the same and good brawl, just stated something that no one said before.

i didn't totally understand this post, but i've been waiting for someone to bring this up: that's WarioMan. That's totally different.
WarioMan is a superpowered Wario with as many drawbacks as he has advantages, and increased lagtime and momentum too. He also has more instant-kill attacks because that's meant to take out more than one opponent at a time.
What's being suggested wouldn't make WarioMan useless, this would moreso make every character god. Top speed, infinite attack cancel, zero startup lag on almost every attack.
Ganon's punches just happen. Zelda literally flickers around the stage. It makes every character temporarily a beast. However, most "tournament players" who'd enjoy this the most only play one-on-one.
I think I'd be more OK with this if it was automatically disabled in matches with more than two players because this really doesn't seem viable outside of 1v1s.

wtf i watched ganon's hack video, it doesn't even make sense